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John845 has entered the game!
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: 32 bit graphics? |
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Sorry if this has been asked before, I did indeed do a search before posting this and found no answer unfortunatly. Anyways, what I'm trying to ask is, how come the only option to play Doom on Zdaemon is in 8 bit? 32 bit looks significantly better than 8 bit. I dont understand the reasoning behind this. |
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EarthQuake Wicked Sick!
Joined: 02 Apr 2004 Location: Athens, Ohio. Dieblieber gonna getcha!
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: |
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It's not like you can just enable 32-bit color and have at it!
It takes a renderer rewrite. As for why there is an option to change the color depth, I have no clue. ZDaemon will always use 256 colors as long as it's a software-rendered port. |
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Doomination God like!
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Location: It's NOT lupus. Posts: 6.022 x 10^23
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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EarthQuake wrote: | It's not like you can just enable 32-bit color and have at it!
It takes a renderer rewrite. As for why there is an option to change the color depth, I have no clue. ZDaemon will always use 256 colors as long as it's a software-rendered port. |
lol, can you imagine it being built into your comp? Heh you'd see this gray box inside your tower with a Zdaemon sticker on it P |
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[n00b]Adereth Spamming!
Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Location: Oh god, what year is this?!
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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EarthQuake wrote: | ZDaemon will always use 256 colors as long as it's a software-rendered port. |
Untrue; there are plans somewhere for an eventual 24-bit version of the software renderer. |
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EarthQuake Wicked Sick!
Joined: 02 Apr 2004 Location: Athens, Ohio. Dieblieber gonna getcha!
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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[n00b]Adereth wrote: | EarthQuake wrote: | ZDaemon will always use 256 colors as long as it's a software-rendered port. |
Untrue; there are plans somewhere for an eventual 24-bit version of the software renderer. |
Of course there are software methods of outputting high color, but in the case of ZDaemon, it's more likely it would support OpenGL and such before this 24-bit color software renderer is finished and time is taken to implement it in ZDaemon. There is a thread on Doomworld about high color source ports, and from what I read it's a hell of a lot harder than it looks without switching to hardware rendering. |
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david-gross Unstoppable!
Joined: 27 May 2005 Location: New York... Posts: 1942
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:39 am Post subject: Re: 32 bit graphics? |
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John845 wrote: | Sorry if this has been asked before, I did indeed do a search before posting this and found no answer unfortunatly. Anyways, what I'm trying to ask is, how come the only option to play Doom on Zdaemon is in 8 bit? 32 bit looks significantly better than 8 bit. I dont understand the reasoning behind this. |
that will take well over 4 times as much CPU power to do that... |
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John845 has entered the game!
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:37 am Post subject: |
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I dont understand the Doom engine that well, but if you run Doom in single player isnt that in 32 bit by default? And even if it takes 4 times as much cpu power to do it, wouldnt our modern day pcs be able to handle it? |
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Da_maniaC Now with new lemon fresh scent!
Joined: 03 Jan 2004 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1337
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:33 am Post subject: |
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John845 wrote: | I dont understand the Doom engine that well, but if you run Doom in single player isnt that in 32 bit by default? And even if it takes 4 times as much cpu power to do it, wouldnt our modern day pcs be able to handle it? |
If you are talking about vanilla doom, then i seriously think you should consider that 32 bit colour wasnt even known back then.
Then again, simply open the doom2.wad and look at the pallette you will see there are 256 (or 255, wtv) colours meaning it is 8 bit.
Same goes for pretty much every source port around here that is software rendered. |
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John845 has entered the game!
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: |
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I think im confusing the terms around here. My only question is why does Skulltag look much more vibrant and colorful then zdaemon? On zdaemon the colors are really bright and mundane. |
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EarthQuake Wicked Sick!
Joined: 02 Apr 2004 Location: Athens, Ohio. Dieblieber gonna getcha!
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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I think the newer version of Skulltag has OpenGL support now, which means its users can take advantage of their video cards. Also another thing to keep in mind, some mods/wads have modified palettes which can bring new colors (baby blues, neon greens, shades of purple, etc) which can trick the mind into thinking there might be more colors. These of course are still limited to 256 colors.
ZDaemon and most other ports still use Doom's old software renderer, which was pretty revolutionary for it's time. 256 simultaneous colors was a big step.
Frankly I see nothing wrong with the way things are now. Gives Doom some of it's charm. |
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Zorro Unstoppable!
Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Location: Your Closet
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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the low (to todays standards) amount of colors in doom kind of adds to the pixelated feeling of the world. However, having the abilities to use colors outside of the palleted would enable things such as more colors for teams/players, vibrant maps, and other stuffs. It would probably be better if it were hardware rendered though (hell, even 256 color mode). |
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John845 has entered the game!
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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Ah.. so opengl is what it is.. |
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[n00b]Adereth Spamming!
Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Location: Oh god, what year is this?!
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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1. The concept of true color (24-bit) was well established and in use by the end of the 1970s. Alpha was fully developed by 1984 in a paper called Compositing Digital Images.
2. The conversion process for the renderer to use 24-bit colour instead of 8-bit colour is mostly a matter of changing when in the rendering process the palette for the original textures and sprites is converted through a lookup table into full colour, and then implementing readers for true colour formats (such as PNG, which is really rather easy) to mix in.
3. It is far more viable than the implementation of OpenGL, and far less easy to write a wallhack for. These two factors are very significant reasons the development team is more interested in 24-bit or 32-bit sprite mode than true 3D.
4. Skulltag looks prettier because it has a higher frame rate; that's the only difference.
Your score on the Knowing Useless ZDaemon Development Trivia Challenge: 0/4. |
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Danni Dominating!
Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:38 am Post subject: |
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If anything I would go for individual color maps per texture before 16 or 32 bit textures. Do you have any idea how powerful that would be? =P Perhaps a method to increase resolution also. But all this would add overhead. |
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xaechireon Unstoppable!
Joined: 22 Sep 2006
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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You'll notice Skulltag has higher ping as well. |
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[n00b]Adereth Spamming!
Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Location: Oh god, what year is this?!
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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That's because they put all of their time into shiny new things instead of netcode work. |
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Tink Dominating!
Joined: 11 Jul 2006 Location: Go Go Power RangerZ!
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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John845 wrote: | I dont understand the Doom engine that well, but if you run Doom in single player isnt that in 32 bit by default? And even if it takes 4 times as much cpu power to do it, wouldnt our modern day pcs be able to handle it? |
i for one only play this cause mi puter cant play alot else, u put this in 36 bit my computer WILL implode. |
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Stealth Gone with the wind
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, probably due to the fact that 36-bit has 16x the colours of 32-bit, not much more than a scanner could handle that right about now |
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[n00b]Adereth Spamming!
Joined: 16 Jul 2005 Location: Oh god, what year is this?!
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Tink Dominating!
Joined: 11 Jul 2006 Location: Go Go Power RangerZ!
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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32... 36.... close enough |
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