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The experience system
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The experience system
a) Is perfect
17%
 17%  [ 6 ]
b) Should get rid of negative xp from suicides/kills
23%
 23%  [ 8 ]
c) Shouldn't reward double kills or killing sprees
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
d) b and c
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
e) Is completely lame
11%
 11%  [ 4 ]
f) Who gives a f***?
38%
 38%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 34

Author Message
Typone
On a Rampage!


Joined: 04 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some nice thoughts were given here.
Right now my opinion is just to ignore the system. Reasons being for example:

- agreed picklehammer, doing something has hardly any potential do decrease your ability to perform, but here you can 'loose experience' (which is weird)

- it does punish you when you give your best against better players and loose (i like playing better players, and i do on doom2.exe)

- it destroys fun gameplay when it creates more quitters. Even i (and i am not one of the best) has had nearly 90 percent quitters after the first 2 minutes. That adds to my decision not to play atm, since rebooting into an dumb OS just to get quitters is no fun ..

Yep, as already suggested by int28, a ranking system would be ok as a ladder, where one can only gain ranks when winning against higher ranked players.
Other from that, a bunch of statistics without any rank number would do ok as well.

If thats not possible, it's just not making any sense to me. IMHO - it's better not doing something like this at all than doing it half way. Rolling Eyes
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Raider
Lazy Admin


Joined: 29 Jul 2002

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Experience Points system is just for fun. Nobody really believes it to be a true indication of a players skill level. If you look at the dictionary definition of "experience" you will realize that it simply means that someone with high experience points has played often, and aquired many frags.

We tried to set up a ladder system. It was popular for about a week, then everyone lost interest in it. If anyone wants to participate in it, here's the link: http://www.myleague.com/zdaemon

We also tried tournaments. That didn't work welll either due to lack of cooperation. It was simply too difficult to organize the participants.

If you look at it from that perspective, it becomes clear that there really isn't an effective way to structure an organized competition system. I like the experience points because it's automatic and nobody has to think about it. If anyone has a better idea feel free to offer suggestions.
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Tai*WarGreymon
YOU PERVERTS!!!1


Joined: 19 Apr 2002

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2003 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raider wrote:
The Experience Points system is just for fun. Nobody really believes it to be a true indication of a players skill level. If you look at the dictionary definition of "experience" you will realize that it simply means that someone with high experience points has played often, and aquired many frags.

We tried to set up a ladder system. It was popular for about a week, then everyone lost interest in it. If anyone wants to participate in it, here's the link: http://www.myleague.com/zdaemon

We also tried tournaments. That didn't work welll either due to lack of cooperation. It was simply too difficult to organize the participants.

If you look at it from that perspective, it becomes clear that there really isn't an effective way to structure an organized competition system. I like the experience points because it's automatic and nobody has to think about it. If anyone has a better idea feel free to offer suggestions.


I pretty much forgot about the ladder. THere used to be so many clans. Now the only one which is active is -NS-, but I probably think that because we have a chataroom (#clan-ns) in MIRC, and that Dano planned on doing..an inner clan-war (we'd play against each other). And I think I'm sorta the only one that really cares to wear a tag -_-. *Sigh*

Maybe it will be better next summer..
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deathz0r
Custom Title


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Location: I ride with the kangaroos

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tai*WarGreymon wrote:
I pretty much forgot about the ladder. THere used to be so many clans. Now the only one which is active is -NS-, but I probably think that because we have a chataroom (#clan-ns) in MIRC, and that Dano planned on doing..an inner clan-war (we'd play against each other). And I think I'm sorta the only one that really cares to wear a tag -_-. *Sigh*

Maybe it will be better next summer..
we are highly active, but that doesn't mean we're on ZDaemon 24/7.
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Mudge
has entered the game!


Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

morbid wrote:
level 50? rank 1? 10000exp?
sounds like a newbie killer to me
...


I know what you mean, I've seen the same thing, it has to be a bug. Sometimes you'll see highest rank 179, rank 1, but there is another #1 out there so...

The ranking system is not perfect IMO, but its ok. I hate the suicides -5 too, but if you are good you wont kill yourself hardly at all if ever. Laggy servers can do that to you, so dont play on em Smile Or drop the rocket launcher and grab something else. I find that I play better relaxed, if I get all pissy, I'm more likely to screw up and start rocketing walls firing prematurely, or turning around too far to try and hit someone behind me, etc

It would be a little more advanced if you got more points for killing a highly experienced person, the way the system works right now if someone plays a crapload of games they will be ranked highly, unless they suicide alot, which is not exactly the best way to denote a #1 player and so on. Although, through experience one would hope people get better, it however would be nearly impossible to have a truly accurate scoring system, a closer situation would be to pit each player against each other, but technique vs technique would bring yet more complication into the thing and blah blah.
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Mudge
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

N64iac wrote:
Is ther exp in Co-op?????


Was already asked once, the answer is no. You will not see COOP servers "certified" as affecting your score, it really makes no sense to have it put in, very much not the same thing killing 20 stupid bots from 1993 versus 20 human opponents from now.
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N64iac
Posting Spree!


Joined: 03 Dec 2002
Location: Over there

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...there should be a co-op exp system.

+10 for Cyberdemon
+8 for Spider demon
+6 for Archvile
+4 for Arachnotron
+2 for Manucibus(sp)
-1 per PK
-1 per death
-2 per death by Zombieman
-5 per suicide
-10 per squished by wall

or something like that
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Mudge
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2003 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you can respawn a million times though, dying only once per 20 beasts that are killed or whatever, it still doesn't match up to a deathmatch type scoring system.
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Daco_NobodX
has entered the game!


Joined: 13 Dec 2002

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raider wrote:
The Experience Points system is just for fun. Nobody really believes it to be a true indication of a players skill level. If you look at the dictionary definition of "experience" you will realize that it simply means that someone with high experience points has played often, and aquired many frags.


If you look at us, we're not the kind of guys that care about what dictionaries say. And yes, almost everyone believe the xp indicate the skill level, so the new system would REALLY be a good idea.


Get back to work.
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Lyfe
Puts the 'Z' in ZDaemon


Joined: 29 May 2002

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2003 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That came across rather rudely.

Why don't you do the dirty work for us then, and conceive how it should be done, and hey.. I got an idea, why don't you begin the implementation?! That way everyone wins. Those of us working on zdaemon won't be as aggrevated because all these people want this, that, and a bag of potato chips without any help/support, and those using the system can actually make use of said improvements.

Seriously, people. If you're going to request a new experience system, someone out there that's not already working on code better sit down and figure out how it should be done, to the point where implementation is as easy as "find point in code, add couple lines, recompile." None of this theoretical bullshit.
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Summoner
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Joined: 18 Aug 2002
Location: idiotville

PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2003 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing is perfect.
This is near perfect though...
But if you would lower the negative points for killing yourself with a rocket launcher... that would be nice.
Also, different points for different weapons would be nice...
More points needed for level up maybe.

    Bfg frag: One marine: 2-4 point(s) Over 3 or 4 marines: 1-2 points Over 6 or 8 Marines in fire range: 1 point

    SSG frag: 3 - 4 points

    Plasma frag: 2 - 3 points

    RailgunBex frag (maybe Wink ) : 4-8 points

    Shotgun frag: 5 - 6 points

    Pea shooter frag: 7 - 10 or 12 ponts

    Chaingun frag: 4-8 points

    Chainsaw frag: 3-6 points

I'm not saying you should use this exactly or at all, just see how it would change things around...
Get the idea of what I'm saying?

The bfg might be a bit much though...
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Magna
has entered the game!


Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Location: Right behind you with a chainsaw

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2003 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops Summoner stole my idea... Confused

I agree with Summoner, diffrent weapons fraggin' rank is great!

you must agree that sawing someone is ,ore complicated tan frag him with bfg... taht will make the game more interesting , when players will begin to chase each other with pistols...

Magna, No Iwant you to cut my arms and legs with a chainsaw, LTD
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int28
Unstoppable!


Joined: 28 Nov 2002
Location: N.E. WI

PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as someone helping out,
I just might do that, I'm going to put in there a drop out rate and a bfg usage % figure also. If someone drops out of too many games, when they pop in it will say something like, so and so fag "DROPOUT QUEEN" has entered the game. You could tell the difference if it was a bad connect or a quitter because they would have to choose end game (unless they yanked there connection, but most people are idiots anyway so they won't think of that). Also the % bfg usage up front, in the stat window. Such as so and so uses bfg 89.4% of the time. That way all the bfg people could hudder together. Not that theres anything wrong with that.
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BoredMarc
Dominating!


Joined: 07 Aug 2002

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how am i suspose to see if i will lag on a server without going on it then see i lag go off the server? i not saying theres not a way to do this i just want to know how.
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Tai*WarGreymon
YOU PERVERTS!!!1


Joined: 19 Apr 2002

PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoredMarc wrote:
how am i suspose to see if i will lag on a server without going on it then see i lag go off the server? i not saying theres not a way to do this i just want to know how.


Take that scroll bar at the..almost very bottom of your zlauncher window, and put it to the right. You will see all the pings of the servers..at least the pings for you :-). Hope I helped. AND I hope you know exactly what i'm talking about :-).
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Raider
Lazy Admin


Joined: 29 Jul 2002

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW! This has to be a first for Tai. Useful information!!! Nice for a change!
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int28
Unstoppable!


Joined: 28 Nov 2002
Location: N.E. WI

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoredMarc wrote:
how am i suspose to see if i will lag on a server without going on it then see i lag go off the server? i not saying theres not a way to do this i just want to know how.


You could do a traceroute also.
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Mudge
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Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no way to make a perfect system, which most of us agree on. Figure someone has 5% life left and kills 20 people in a row before getting taken down, now THAT is some skill, but how do you account for that. Further, if someone is in a corner of a room, and gets rocketed to death, well it was pretty easy to take them out but rocketed in a huge open area, the other player either sucks at dodging or your one hell of a shot. So the system currently seems good enough, although yes those occasional rocket deaths suck Sad but thats why good players dont do that.
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deathz0r
Custom Title


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Location: I ride with the kangaroos

PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raider wrote:
WOW! This has to be a first for Tai. Useful information!!! Nice for a change!
We should frame it!
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scirmast
Da Po-po


Joined: 13 Nov 2002
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2003 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Summoner wrote:
Nothing is perfect.
This is near perfect though...
But if you would lower the negative points for killing yourself with a rocket launcher... that would be nice.
Also, different points for different weapons would be nice...
More points needed for level up maybe.

    Bfg frag: One marine: 2-4 point(s) Over 3 or 4 marines: 1-2 points Over 6 or 8 Marines in fire range: 1 point

    SSG frag: 3 - 4 points

    Plasma frag: 2 - 3 points

    RailgunBex frag (maybe Wink ) : 4-8 points

    Shotgun frag: 5 - 6 points

    Pea shooter frag: 7 - 10 or 12 ponts

    Chaingun frag: 4-8 points

    Chainsaw frag: 3-6 points

I'm not saying you should use this exactly or at all, just see how it would change things around...
Get the idea of what I'm saying?

The bfg might be a bit much though...


Fist: 16-20 points!! Smile
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