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Old Zdaemon SSG (ZDoom PRNG)

 
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Madgunner
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Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta,GA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject: Old Zdaemon SSG (ZDoom PRNG) Reply with quote

I believe in ZDaemon 1.06 the classic doom2.exe was re-implemented back into ZDaemon. While this is cool for compatibility with vanilla doom, I was wondering if we could get the old ssg back that used ZDoom's prng instead of vanillla's. I personally found it a little more consistent and less random and it would be cool if we could get it back as a DMFLAG.
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Aeyesx
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Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Location: Czech Republic

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only change seems to be related to the way RNG works. Well... why?

< removed >

The RNG should be, in theory as random as it can be. I found that much more object's do use this RND for various needs. (mostly hexen objects)

Edit: I just realized I wrote a nonsense. Removing it


Last edited by Aeyesx on Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Madgunner
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Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta,GA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not quite sure what you're talking about, but in 1.07 the old zdoom SSG that uses the ZDoom PRNG was removed in favor of the classic PRNG by Dash. While the vanilla ssg does does sometimes do more damage than the ZDoom one, I felt that the ZDoom one was much more consistent with the spread. I'd like to see it get reinserted back into ZDaemon as a dmflag. As far as I know, the code can simply be copied from the 1.06 source verbatim.
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Aeyesx
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Joined: 13 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gotta pardon myself I wrote a nonsense previously.

I searched thru various versions but couldn't really tell how the RNG differ. The changelog does not mention it. Obviously the code was different in older zdoom and newer zdoom and was different in original doom source. (Kilgore will certainly know) But what I noticed was how many other actors were using this RND. It makes sense to have it vanilla-like...To have a dmflag for that I think there would have to be two RND's for just that and I am not sure if it's worth it.

Instead ... what if we modify how the SSG behaves via dehacked? As a PWAD it would be easier. I couldn't find any older zdaemon version to compare.

SSG properties looks like this in decorate

A_FireBullets (11.2, 7.1, 20, 5, "BulletPuff")

1. spread_horz
2. spread_vert
3. numbullets
4. damage
5. pufftype

Using this we can customize SSG in any way.
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Madgunner
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Joined: 23 Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta,GA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aeyesx wrote:
I gotta pardon myself I wrote a nonsense previously.

I searched thru various versions but couldn't really tell how the RNG differ. The changelog does not mention it. Obviously the code was different in older zdoom and newer zdoom and was different in original doom source. (Kilgore will certainly know) But what I noticed was how many other actors were using this RND. It makes sense to have it vanilla-like...To have a dmflag for that I think there would have to be two RND's for just that and I am not sure if it's worth it.

Instead ... what if we modify how the SSG behaves via dehacked? As a PWAD it would be easier. I couldn't find any older zdaemon version to compare.

SSG properties looks like this in decorate

A_FireBullets (11.2, 7.1, 20, 5, "BulletPuff")

1. spread_horz
2. spread_vert
3. numbullets
4. damage
5. pufftype

Using this we can customize SSG in any way.


Okay, while I don't necessarily object to this idea, I'd strongly prefer a dmflag to enable the old zdoom PRNG rather than add something that could lead to hundreds of different ssgs. A lot of people are still not happy with shots and I'm almost positive it's due to the nature of how vanilla's PRNG works. While the vanilla ssg does on average do more damage than zdoom's ssg, there are many times will you will aim straight on and it will miss due to the randomness of the spread. With ZDoom's prng this is a lot less likely to happen and as a result it leads to a more consistent ssg. I am almost positive Kilgore will know what I'm talking about with the prng being changed in a previous version to appease some doom2.exe purists. I haven't been able to get in touch with him on irc in a long time, but perhaps you can? I feel like if we can get this implemented, a lot of competitive doom will come back to ZDaemon.
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Aeyesx
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Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Location: Czech Republic

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not a developer, just occasional modder.

Either way as I said... the RNG affects A LOT of things in the engine that uses it besides SSG including enemies, so it only makes sense to use vanilla one.

But if dev's aren't against or can make it somehow affect only SSG it should be fine I guess.
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