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[CTF] Flags height
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Oxyde
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Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Location: France (67) Host: Zero Dawn

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:35 pm    Post subject: [CTF] Flags height Reply with quote

Priority: From a competitive player point of view, it's a very problematic behavior

What does it affect: Obviously, flags in CTF

Why whould it be implemented: Because private CTF players need this a LOT.

The current flags retain their original height, similar to keys, which is 24 pixels if I'm right. Now, flags are taller, much taller. When someone who's providing cover for a flag runner, the last thing he absolutely needs is a flag that he cannot grab because of the map layout.

Don't blame this on the map; the runner doesn't have the luxury of choosing where he will die. Sometimes, flags also end up stuck without even being possible to grab them.

So, what's the fix we can give here?
Make the flags 56 pixels tall. This prevents stuck flags, and also makes grabbing a fallen flag on downwards stairs possible, instead of having to backtrack to grab it again, leaving you defenseless.

I'm well aware this is not difficult to pull off in Dehacked/Dehsupp stuff, but because we are talking about a game mode that has been around for very long and having the behavior altered from a server to one other isn't a viable option.

Feel free to discuss and prove me this isn't needed, I know I'm right in the end.[/humility]
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Buli
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Joined: 19 May 2012
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second this. Wanted to make this request as well but you outstripped me.
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Memfis
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Joined: 29 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think won't work because you have to touch the bottom of an object to pick it up. Here is an example wad where I changed the height of yellow key to 64 but still it's impossible to pick it up from a "hole" and you can still easily avoid it while running down the stairs.
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Chimila
On a Rampage!


Joined: 05 Dec 2013

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yea stupid request imo
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Oxyde
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Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Location: France (67) Host: Zero Dawn

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Memfis wrote:
I think won't work because you have to touch the bottom of an object to pick it up. Here is an example wad where I changed the height of yellow key to 64 but still it's impossible to pick it up from a "hole" and you can still easily avoid it while running down the stairs.


Then I suppose that there IS a problem with ZDaemon because every other ZDoom-ish engine using a similar behaviour (tall grabbable (is that a word? Surprised) items) work just fine.

Chimila wrote:
yea stupid request imo

Just trying to help, you're welcome, though.
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capodecima
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Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Location: Czech Republic Clan: [FW]

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol dunno if it works here but 56 is way too much...
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Memfis
MemfisWatt


Joined: 29 Oct 2011

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget that ZDaemon is based on a very ancient version of ZDoom, things were different and a lot closer to the vanilla behavior back then. I guess a new DMFLAG would be possible...
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Buli
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Joined: 19 May 2012
Location: France

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^So is Odamex. I'm pretty sure Odamex has taller flag hitboxes but things do not work the same way for ZD as this port is compiled and coded differently.
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Aeyesx
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Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Location: Czech Republic

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wtf, changing key heigh ? Key's are no longer used, flags are separated objects, the keys were used in past. Also flag sizes can be modified (cuz why not?), also I never noticed that the flag could get stuck somewhere ? o,O... The dropped flag resets after few seconds if it is not picked up right?
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Sr69Mm-jC
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Joined: 21 Jul 2011

PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeez, Medis. If you are going to reply in a topic, you actually need to read it, not just pick a few random keywords and speak whatever comes to mind. I'll spare the effort of pointing out everything that is wrong with your post. Rather, please, just read the topic this time.
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Aeyesx
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Joined: 13 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yesh true, i was in hurry xD
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Kilgore
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Up the river

PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Implemented. Will show up on the next release (110b04)
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Buli
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Joined: 19 May 2012
Location: France

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has this been tested after implementation?
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AF-Domains.net
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Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since this is a beta, this is still the testing phase.

Test it out and see what happens.
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Buli
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Joined: 19 May 2012
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I feel like nothing has changed, not to say height of the flags look unchanged.

In addition to being a good value, 48 px is the equivalent of 3/4 steps in a CTF map, which shouldn't cause problems returning/picking up a flag when running over 2 steps.
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capodecima
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Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Location: Czech Republic Clan: [FW]

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep i agree with kara seems be still same to me. I tested it a bit on map08 and its still "hard" grab the flag on stairs there, it would never happens if the flag had really 48 px.
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EarthQuake
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Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio. Dieblieber gonna getcha!

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it does not seem to have been changed.
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AF-Domains.net
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Joined: 01 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The change was made. If it hadn't, it wouldn't have been put into the changelog.

Though based on the comments, it doesn't appear to have made a difference.

The implication that nothing was changed is incorrect.
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EarthQuake
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Joined: 02 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a way to easily test:

http://speedy.sh/ub7sF/flagheight.wad (you must be in CTF mode)

The hallway here has several holes, each one 8 units lower than the last.
The first starts at 8 pixels deep, the flag is touchable. The second hole is 16 pixels deep, the original height of the flag things. The flag is untouchable here, indicating that it is still 16 pixels high, just out of reach.

If the flag were 48 units tall, the fifth hole (40 pixels deep) would be the last hole where the flag can be taken.
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Body-Guard
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Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Location: Hungary

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, just replacing the height's value clearly does not work. There is more into this than changing some variable. Changing pickup heights in dehacked doesn't work as well, no matter which pickup item you modify.

My guess is that the SPECIAL thing flag (which basically tells that it is a pickup) (or if not the flag itself, the routine which is called when walking over the thing having this flag) determines an uniformized grab height for every pickup item hardcodedly. Changing the thing's height does not affect this special pickup height in any way.
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