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Widescreen

 
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phenex2
Unstoppable!


Joined: 10 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Choww i think you do not understand how the widescreen mode works.

Since you do not react to irc PMs i'll explain it here.
If a player with a fullscreen uses a 4:3 resolution and a widescreen player uses a 16:9 resolution then ZDaemon will do the following by default:



As you can see it does not matter what monitor a user has or what the server allows. All players will always have the same FOV no matter if the server forces fullscreen or allows widescreen. Thus all players have equal information and there are no inequalities or unfairness. The widescreen support was designed explicitly with competitive gameplay in mind.

Of course if a player uses a resolution that has a different aspect ratio than their monitor they might get a distorted view, but still see the same info as their enemies.
The only case when a player has an disadvantage is when he messed up his widescreen options and deliberately set a smaller FOV.
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Emui-Tan
On a Rampage!


Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: /!\

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phenex2 wrote:
Choww i think you do not understand how the widescreen mode works.

Since you do not react to irc PMs i'll explain it here.

This was truly unnecessary /!\
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Ch0wW
Dominating!


Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Split the WIDESCREEN DISCUSSION TO ANOTHER POST !!! Reply with quote

GUYS! ^------ THIS.

Let's move that to another thread, if that doesn't disturb ya'? I said my choice is definitive, I don't want to come back to my personal decision. "If I don't like it, I don't use it" as you say.

Now, that's going off-topic, so please split this to another thread.


[NOW SPLIT FROM HERE]

I'll be honest, but you don't seem to truly see the problem linked to that 16/9 view, competitively speaking. Your screen only shows 2 of the 3 cases a 4:3 player can have against a 16:9 one, with widescreen "on".

First of all, before starting this, my comparaison is between 2 resolutions: the complete default one made by zdaemon (640x480), and the most commonly used resolution in HD, ie 720p.

First of all, look at the 720p one: looks perfect, 109 fov, "happy happy joy joy".



Now the comparaison.

Please look at the VERY default resolution of the default 4:3 screen with widescreen mode on:



Cool, I've the 16:9 view. But please look at the screenshot's height.
360pixels. that's 25% smaller than the true default 4:3 screen. Nice, right? I've 75% of my screen, against a 100% from a 16:9 view. Even if I've 109 of fov, there is a screen disadvantage, against those two players.

Also got difficulties to straff40 efficiently.

Now, let's set r_pillarbox_percent to 100.



Perfect, my 4:3 resolution is back to normal, ready to kick ass. 480 of height, but 90 of fov.
My opponent has however an advantage of fov : +19, being able to see more than I actually see.

Last case: I can also disable the classic aspect ratio. Good lord we can.



Best of both worlds? Hmmm, may be, excepted my game is squeezy, as if my screen was compressed. The movement feels weird, the aim is worse than a classic aspect ratio screen, ie. the horror.

Good thing to note: in widescreen mode, a 109-FOV player has too weird strafe movements, as if strafe-50ing was more difficult, as players used to aim to a right angle to move quickly.

Again, many players can get over it, but really, good luck. Also, they won't get used to other ports available on the internet.

Players were used to 4:3 screens resolution and movements since zdaemon < 1.10 exists, so why enabling it for competitive purposes if they won't get at least TRUE equality?




(^ using r_letterbox_percent to 100 )

Maybe I added a cvar, and the screen is a little stretched, but look! No real difference! TRUE Screen equality between 2 players!

I hope that I'm myself clear of this. I don't want to hear from that again, so please accept my decision, and if you're unhappy on my (+ players) choices, well, deal with it.
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phenex2
Unstoppable!


Joined: 10 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way we implemented the widescreen and fullscreen support is the most fair and sane way possible.
You can only display a 16:9 image on a 4:3 screen without distortion when you sacrifice the parts on top and bottom.

There never was TRUE screen equality because we do not force a single resolution on players. And the only distinction
you make is about resolution effectively, saying that the 16:9 picture on a 4:3 monitor wastes 25% vertically.

Now lets have a look at your example. Assume the widescreen player uses a 720p res (1280 × 720) and the fullscreen
player uses the 4:3 res 1600 x 1200. The effective size for the 4:3 player now is 1600x900 when we ignore the letterboxes.
So where exactly is the problem now? The 4:3 player sees even MORE pixels than the widescreen player because he has a
higher resolution (the FOV is the same).

So your example can be inverted by simply increasing the 4:3 players resolution. If that is your issue then even before we
even introduced widescreen support you should have complained about the screens not being truly equal because someone
could use a higher resolution than your monitor is capable of displaying.

EDIT: Just to clarify, nobody is trying to tell you how to run your servers, forcing you to enable widescreen, or trying to change your mind.
We were worried there was some real problem that would need to be addressed, but no matter how i look at it i see no problem.
In the end the players will decide and join whatever server settings they prefer, since the widescreen option is visible in the serverlist.


Last edited by phenex2 on Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Kilgore
Air Cavalry


Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Up the river

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the argument against widescreen mode is about the missing pixels in the vertical direction when you use a 4:3 monitor, have you ever thought about the inverse problem? what happens to users of 16:9 monitors when they play on a 4:3 (or 109 and earlier) server? they'll have missing pixels in the horizontal direction, unless of course they enjoy distorted views. Those people can now play on widescreen servers with no black bars; same way you can play on 4:3 servers with no black bars either.

Just consider that over 90% of the monitors sold today are 16:9; you think all those players prefer either black bars or distorted graphics?

Quote:
Also, they won't get used to other ports available on the internet
The same argument can be made against your method if you compare it to other games as well.

Quote:
why enabling it for competitive purposes if they won't get at least TRUE equality?
TRUE equality is all about the FOV; not about the pixels since people can use different resolutions or monitor sizes. What we did is the ONLY fair way: if people want to compete in 4:3 mode, they can (since it's a dmflag and it's clearly shown in the launcher, so you can know what kind of game you're getting into); and if they prefer to compete in 16:9 mode, they can too. What is the problem?
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TheCupboard
Generic Title


Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lincoln freed the slaves.

ZDaemon now has extra display options.

Learn to love it.
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