Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:31 am Post subject: King of the Hill
So I had this idea to screw around with the DDOM mode, putting both points right on top of each other (so there's essentially only 1 control point). I made some maps, and hacked-up the display to make more sense too.
Kilgore has also been phenomenal in making sure that it will be totally bitchin' when the next beta comes out
Anyways, yeah, I made a few maps, ripped off some others, and have a bunch more in the works. Pics now:
M2 - Some kind of ripoff of Mephisto's M21 from Lazarus. Idk, it seemed like a good idea at the time. I've reworked it a bunch tonight, and I think it's definitely more playable now.
M3- Simple, concentric ring map. Not much to look at.
M04 - Jointly inspired by PLASDM M21 and the Promethius trailer. Oh and, despite me being a strict non-freelooker, it's a railgun only map! Weird mix, but I like it!
M5 - The very latest addition. As a result, I also think that it's one of the best. Themed after an old CTF map of mine.
M6 - When I came to compile stuff, I actually forgot I had made this one! But, despite this map being one of my earliest for the project, it plays as one of the strongest.
Luca reckons it feels a bit like 'Loops of Fury' from Nutty, and he's not wrong.
M7 - Hmm... what could this one possibly be inspired by? Irrelevant, because it plays like a beast, and that's all that counts! It may have a slight NS twist to it too
Last released build is here: KotHpack01e
There's also a server for it here: zds://85.214.149.120:10953
(although there's many improvements since that version - mostly to the first 2 maps)
And yeah, I'm can take this up to 10 maps myself, and then have Krawa run it on ZDS. But it'd be much more interesting if other people wanted to contribute something too. Except TUD. He is absolutely not allowed to submit yet another converted forest or factory map!
As (I hope) I have demonstrated, they can be as simple or as mental as you please
Wow. I was thinking the same thing about making King of the Hill. Only I thought to throw this idea along with the million of gametypes we already have I thought, never mind.
But hey looks promising. And yeah a radar would be nice.
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 Location: Netherlands Clan: [QnB]
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject:
Woah yeah, I think this would be very much fun to play! I look forward to the Zdaemon Session featuring this mod!
I haven't played the mod yet, but I did look at the maps a bit. I noticed some of the maps being pretty big. I don't think that will work well for this mod, especially if only a few people are playing. I imagine that it can be pretty frustrating sometimes when you only have one chance to dominate the control. Because when you get killed on some maps, you don't have enough time to run back to the control point to correct your mistake. This is probably not a issue when there are more people playing though.
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:06 am Post subject:
It's just a couple of maps that are a problem Ronnie. Obviously everything needs to be within spitting distance when you only have 10secs to save the day, but I'm trying to experiment with a variety of styles here. Still, these maps are all designed with real teamplay in mind, rather than being 1on1 maps.
phenex2 wrote:
didnt get to play it yet.
but why did you remove the compass that would lead players to the 'hill'?
Artistic license? Because I can?
Lol, Kilgore had the exact same question. I guess that's understandable when you guys spent the time putting it in.
But, if you played the maps, you'd realise that the compass feature is a totally superfluous distraction on almost all of them. Like needing arrows to find the exit on D2M7
And, y'know, people did find their way around before such newfangled inventions? You want to help people out, then maybe add it to CTF too. Some of the flagmaps out there need it way more than any Ddom (or DDom-based) maps ever will!
I noticed some of the maps being pretty big. I don't think that will work well for this mod, especially if only a few people are playing. I imagine that it can be pretty frustrating sometimes when you only have one chance to dominate the control. Because when you get killed on some maps, you don't have enough time to run back to the control point to correct your mistake.
I hate to say it but listen to teh roland on this one! DDOM and KotH will only play good when the time from spawn to domination point is around 8 seconds. If paths are longer and you cant reach the point after being killed when it was captured in time then you might as well just sit and wait for the other team to score.
I didnt check the timings myself yet, but if even ronald noticed it then i'd advise rechecking the maps.
Cybershark wrote:
Artistic license? Because I can?
Lol, Kilgore had the exact same question. I guess that's understandable when you guys spent the time putting it in.
But, if you played the maps, you'd realise that the compass feature is a totally superfluous distraction on almost all of them.
Its not about us spending time putting it in. But from what i heard from other people that actually played the maps they kept getting lost on some maps after spawn. Thats why i asked.
The compass is very important for DDOM at least since maps are mostly symmetric and it matters a lot to run to the right point after spawn.
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:09 am Post subject:
phenex2 wrote:
I hate to say it but listen to teh roland on this one! DDOM and KotH will only play good when the time from spawn to domination point is around 8 seconds. If paths are longer and you cant reach the point after being killed when it was captured in time then you might as well just sit and wait for the other team to score.
I didnt check the timings myself yet, but if even ronald noticed it then i'd advise rechecking the maps.
Roland made vague comments, based on initial impressions - not that I don't appreciate them. But I've lived inside these maps, and also playtested them with a few people. I'm also more than aware of the dynamics of Domination. Hmm... probably more aware than anybody else around, save for Kilgore?
The maps are under constant review, and there are already many tweaks in version 01f.
phenex2 wrote:
But from what i heard from other people that actually played the maps they kept getting lost on some maps after spawn. Thats why i asked.
The compass is very important for DDOM at least since maps are mostly symmetric and it matters a lot to run to the right point after spawn.
For one thing, this is clearly not Ddom. There is no "right" point to run to.
Aside from that, there is one map in there in which it is less that evident where the point is from spawn. For all the others, I consider it to be more time consuming to take time to check the sat nav.
Joined: 19 Sep 2009 Location: Coventry, Warwickshire, England
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:50 am Post subject:
I remember play testing this with you, it looks awesome. Also if you're in need of more mappers for this, I think Devisin was making some maps for DDom which looked the part. I'm sure she would make some good maps for KoTH too.
Looks nifty. I'll see what I can throw together for a map. Do i need to know anything special about mapping for these, other than the one domination point?
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:46 pm Post subject:
Cow
Keep hoping to catch you on IRC, but not had any luck yet, so I'm glad you stopped by.
There's not much to know about making these maps:
Use plain DM starts, like you would in FFA maps
Place both Domination points (thing numbers 5135 & 5136) on top of each other
Place the point(s) with due reverence, like you'd place a BFG in a map
Make the point area not too hard to get to, and not impossible to defend
These maps are unlikely to get played outside of a ZDS
Custom gfx, music, w/e are fine for this. But I should cover my ass with some abitrary limit, like that the whole deal (map+extras) must be under 2Meg
SwiftShot wrote:
Devisin
I'll have to try and catch her sometime.
C-Robert wrote:
Really cool maps... Its awesome! Cant wait to play...
Pretty sure that you shouldn't be able to tell if they're awesome or not until after you have played... I'd have liked nothing more than to make all the maps absolutely plain looking, but I just can't work that way.
But thanks for the vote of confidence anyway, and you're welcome to contribute too!
Why? I believe lack of team starts disables the feature which teleports players back to spawns when a point is scored. Is it a good or a bad feature for KotH?
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:51 am Post subject:
Huh. It seems I already had that map. Guess you must've floated sometime in the past too.
It's a nice design, although it seems excessively steep in too many places. I like the roofed structures, and the general layout, but the map is too big to work for this kind of game. It simply takes too long to traverse, and the water makes things even longer.
It might be usable as a Double-Dom map, or could be converted into a "freestyle Domination" map of the kind we did in zdomination.
SR69MM-JC wrote:
Cybershark wrote:
Use plain DM starts, like you would in FFA maps
Why? I believe lack of team starts disables the feature which teleports players back to spawns when a point is scored. Is it a good or a bad feature for KotH?
It's not a good feature, but it was not something I realised when I started out. I could dump red, blue, green and white teamstarts on top of each other, but I have niggling worries about telefrags occuring under those conditions and I'd rather keep things simple.
Anyways, Kilgore has since de-restricted the reset behaviour, so it is not specific to teamstarts now. So it will no longer be an issue in a few more days
Anyways, here's an updated version, with a ton of improvements, and one new map.
Playable on [GL] Las Vegas: zds://199.167.192.247:10075
got to actually play which was cool. It's nice that the mode is doable one on one as opposed to ddom, and one or two of the maps were playable 2 on one. Myself, I like the fact that it didn't reset, as the game felt more fluid. The general consensus in the game I played was that the time limit was way to short, and there were some issues with joining teams due to scores or number of players, but those aren't really .wad issues tho...
Map done, submitted for your approval. Hope my link works, my winzip is expired
https://sites.google.com/site/opcow4/koth12.wad
Op-Cow
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject:
Heh yeah, I played some with you yesterday. I didn't have many minutes to play though, or we could've had a proper catch-up. Still hope to catch you on irc sometime!
Yeah, the timelimit was too low on that server. Came from us playing on there drunk, post-ZDS, the night before. It had no time limit then, and we just added a silly one. It's fixed now.
Your map is quite competent for DM, but doesn't really appear well suited for KotH. The point is too exposed, with too many routes to get to it and, ultimately, it's all a bit too cramped. Remember that a player only has to touch the point to control it, and that a speeding player can easily do this when the defence have to look 4 different ways. It might work out if you closed off a couple of routes, or scaled the whole thing up a good deal. Or it might work better as a Ddom map, if you put one point in the top left, and the other in the bottom right. But probably it'd be best to just downgrade this to a plain ol' FFA map.
I've got some prototype layouts I might throw out for people to work with, or it might be an idea to look online, see if you can find some examples of such maps from other games.
ah well... i'll keep workin with it. Maybe go with a different approach altogether. Thanks for the feedback, can't expect to pick up right were I left off after a hiatus.
did some extensive playing on the new wad. The lazy ass m21 wad's new layout is a bit confusing, I was having a hard time finding the capture point. On the new map, I'd make the water instant death or higher damage. I was running out of ammo on meatball and dead retarded, so if I'M staying alive that long it could be a problem Also, meatball fortress got a bit sticky on the grates near the center.
I'm just picking apart details, over all, it was a bunch of fun, and I hear the other servers were empty. We had 3v3 going for a while. I think it's a good mode with good maps and a gateway for people getting into ddom.
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