Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:36 am Post subject: CooBlu Co-op!
I made this out of pure boredom in a month (slowww...). This is just the first map, but it's the start of something. I'd like to see positive reviews from this. Also if you're wondering, I do know a couple bugs in here, I just haven't got to them lately. Here we go!
Well, before I can even remotely judge it, are you by chance going to add any ammo so we can kill more than a couple of monsters? Not everyone likes to play with infinite ammo, ya know.
Also, those jumping puzzles are invariably going to lead to butthurt on a server loaded with people, especially the one by the arachnotrons.
Good to hear. Some people react negatively when someone points out flaws in their work. From my general impression of it, you're on the right track as a new author, the map just suffers from some of the common qualities that many of our maps had at one point in time. Detail is pretty sparse, but not completely absent (at least towards the beginning of the map). Your lighting effects are a pretty good start. The map seems to have a lot of walls and ceilings and floors that look big and empty. It sure does take a lot of time filling up such spaces, but it really pays off in the end.
There seem to be a lot of large open spaces and long hallways where monsters are pretty much scattered all over or are placed in lines. This doesn't really provide much challenge to experienced players and isn't terribly interesting. Some traps or multiple routes, or side areas would be nice. Having monsters come from multiple directions as opposed to being directly in front of you as you encounter them, keeps players on the move. As it is, the map feels really linear without really anything to [optionally] explore and without monsters posing too much threat to the players (aside from the fact they are in large numbers).
So I guess some suggestions you might try:
Make rooms smaller (and not so tall), hallways shorter, and try to add some details that make them look interesting and more distinct. Smaller areas are easier to detail. Add pillars, supports, pits, frames, windows, panels in the wall, something!
Try doing some interesting things with monsters instead of placing them out in the open or upon ledges. There's tons of stuff you can do with "traps". You can even flag monsters as deaf so they only wake up when they see you. For a good "trap" example, try having some pits with cacodemons or lost souls in them. When they wake up, they will rise from within!
Texturing is a school of art, so I won't tell you to master it overnight. One thing to consider though, is making any outdoor areas look like outdoor areas, hehe. If a wall is textured with rock, it should be rough and uneven, right? I mean you don't see any rectangular rocks with uniform height when you look at this, do you?
Give players some sort of cover, especially if you got a really wide open area with Cyberdemons flinging rockets everywhere. Not only does this let people take a quick breather (and maybe restock on some ammo/health), but it fills that bland empty space I mentioned earlier.
I guess all I can say now, is go forth and make some more maps! You might even consider taking a look at some of your favorite megawads (we're talking about the good stuff like AV, HR, Scythe, etc... not the dbzone crap). They can give you some good direction on how to wow your players.
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:29 pm Post subject:
Co-op sure ain't my bag, but I played some ZDS with Coo the other night and was a little bored last night, so I checked this out and made a few notes:
All that uniform STARTAN perhaps does not bode well. Still, the flats do match - so far...
My feelings are mixed about the coded door right at the start. On the one hand then it seems like everything may be oversimplified as a result, on the other then I don't feel much like a full-on mazegame, so this could be ok.
Default MIDI already bringing on feelings of despair, so I opt for NIN's Quake soundtrack instead.
Lighting looking quite competent as I hit the first corridor. Although I'm rather displeased to see Cacos and an SSG so early on.
Flat/texture combo fails it in the next room, as red glowy rock leads into brown tiley floor. I also just realise that I'm going to need jump. Oh, and the demons get me. Baaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Run into a Baron in the next corridor with only a couple of shells left and now I'm wondering if this is meant to be infinite ammo too? Or maybe it's just because I'm playing SP? Dunno, seems to be a scarcity of ammo either way, so I get bored and MDK the prick.
More weird gfx transitions around the first teleporter, and beyond is the map's first total fail, an imp who doesn't have room to move, much less attack anything. Sorry, but at that point then I almost can't be arsed to play or write anymore. But I do. And I find two powerups in close succession and then a posse of arachnos who kick my ass due to lack of ammo. And that's before I even get to the fucking annoying jumpy part.
Right, that is definitely enough now. Basically, if you don't give a crap about playtesting (and noticing something so damn obvious as stuck monsters), and you can't provide settings (like telling people they'll need infinite ammo) then why should I bother to play it?
Or read EQ's post if you want more constructive criticism.
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:13 pm Post subject: wow!
I see what you guys mean. Yeah, I was just about to post a new version but... two new messages already! I was kind of looking for a coopbuildm or DBZone v7c feel to it... look how populated THEY are! With the open space with the now two cyberdemons, hidden BFG at the start (lamer's choice), and no traps to be sprung on, apart from the yellow key cacodemon trap, it feels so... noobish. Sure, I'm taking those comments in strong consideration. Consider it better!
-CooBlu
:EDIT: If you're wondering... eternall doom, victorio's coop stuff, and lava worlds added some inspiration. But, jumping a lot (lava worlds) does get boring.
Last edited by CooBlu on Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:35 pm Post subject: update!
okay, I've updated. The startan's gone, the rocks aren't smooth, ammo's been laid out in random places, and traps have been set, along with slight map changes. And yes, I have tested it.
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:00 pm Post subject:
But that first imp still cannot move!
And you broke stuff. The teleport that is supposed to lead to the outdoor area (where you go to pick up the red key) is no longer possible to use. It seems that it was ok in the original version, but you dropped the ceiling height so much that it's impossible to enter the thing now.
In other news, the random ammo placement is making no sense because although the SSG has gone I keep finding shells which are no use at all. And then I find spheres in the secrets? No stimpacks, no medikits, just straight to spheres. I guess it's hard to consider placement of ammo and health if all you're used to is coopbuild
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:26 pm Post subject: crap...
it doesn't work!? Damn, I'll have to fix that. The only reason the shotgun ammo is there is for the shotgun you start out with (maybe I'll need to find out why I start out with a shotgun). The first imp really didn't move! *ANOTHER FIX* The floor hieghts seemed fine to me, I'll take another look at them. *ANOTHER FIX*. And yeah, I have no sense in where to put ammo, and if you ask me, the secret room in locked room 3 has TOO MUCH GODDAMN STUFF! *ANOTHER FIX*. I suck at this.
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 Location: Netherlands Clan: [QnB]
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:40 am Post subject:
You shouldn't be so hard on yourself. I think your first map looks very promising! Much better than my first map! Hell, much better than the maps I make nowadays!
Some thoughts that came to mind and feelings I got when I played this:
Needs more ammo and health;
Monster placement is random;
Thing placement feels strange, makes the map feel "empty";
The closer I get to the exit, the more rushed the map starts to look;
Doors go up to heaven?!? Sides of the doors move up along with the door;
Lots of unintended texturing: like the back of the teleporter in the red-door-room.
Cybershark was right about the teleporter. You can't go through. I had to IDCLIP myself to the teleport destination. Might want to walk through your own map before you decide to upload it for others to play.
I hope you were kidding about giving this wad a coopbuild touch... I'd prefer HR difficulty, but that's just my personal taste. I also hope you're gonna take some time to look at your map room by room and think about what makes sense when it comes to texturing and thing placement.
CooBlu wrote:
I was kind of looking for a coopbuildm or DBZone v7c feel to it... look how populated THEY are!
This makes me feel you're mapping for the public, and not for yourself.
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject:
Ronald wrote:
Cybershark was right about the teleporter. You can't go through. I had to IDCLIP myself to the teleport destination. Might want to walk through your own map before you decide to upload it for others to play. (
Easy Ron, I was set to rip him a new one for that, but then I checked against the old version of the WAD and it was something that obviously got accidentally done in the revision.
Great bullet points though. I was gonna mention all that stuff too, but I figured I'd just point out some basics for now.
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