Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:49 pm Post subject: About public and private CTF
Seeing the original thread where this discussion started has been locked since it went offtopic, I guess we can continue here in a dedicated thread (if we are up for it), as this is a hot subject which is essential to discuss (I really hope the other thread was locked because this discussion was offtopic in it, and not because someone found this subject inacceptable for discussing here).
I'm replying to last posts by SwiftShot and SuperNova.
You both make it sound like ZDaemon is a place for high class competition only. Caring only about CTF being played on locked servers as a high class competition.
SwiftShot wrote:
public CTF with random idots changing teams every few seconds because they arent winning
Changing teams every few seconds? I guess you're exaggerating here, heh. Or if you really see this happening on a common basis, you should talk with server admins about it. I'm sure it's a bannable offense.
SuperNova wrote:
Okay, now on to Mr. Cone-R-Six (assuming it's pronounced that way!)
Lol tbh idk how I would pronounce it in english. (acronyms ftw. Ok, now back on topic and manners )
SuperNova wrote:
When you say "pros," I can only assume you mean IDL players and people who spend more time in priv (as you later go on to mention in that quote). I am going to point you into the proper direction which will completely disprove everything you just said there: http://www.intldoomleague.org
You can look there and see that a variety of maps have been played through the last 8 seasons. When you refer to "pros" and make it seem like an exclusive list, you can also see that there have been well over 100 different people to play in the IDL. When you say that we play 4 or 5 of the same maps and refuse to let one map-pack go, that is where you are 150,000% dead wrong. As I mentioned previously, the IDL put together a wad that includes great maps from a huge variety of different map packs and puts it all in one. There are 32 great maps in it and every season they swap new maps in and out to continue the variety. So no, we actually play a much larger variety than the public does and I think it wouldn't be a bad thing for public server admins to start running this wad as well as others. Also, we (people of the IDL community/"pros") have always encouraged as many people as possible to come play on private servers and have even posted the IP's and passwords to these servers for anyone reading this forums to come on and play.
I am quite surprised you didn't react on the first part of my post regarding map rotations on public servers. In fact, you only explained to me how private CTF and IDL is great.
For the third time, I am talking about public CTF map rotations, specifically zdctfmp, while as you are talking about private CTF and the IDL itself. I know well that IDL is played on various maps, but do I need to join a league just to play some CTF games?
If I look on the maplist you and others suggested for running on public servers, it is noticeably parallel to maps that are left in the IDL wad from zdctfmp. While I understand and support the removal of the other maps and replacing them with ones better suitable for competitive play (which is the IDL wad made for), I really can't see why they couldn't be run on a public zdctfmp server.
And I really don't want to talk about IDL here, until it starts sounding like I'm threating it badly, which isn't the case. I never said IDL itself is bad.
SuperNova wrote:
If I am making a thread asking for something like map-voting or a certain rotation be put in and I'm doing it because I want to maintain activity at it's peak as well as keep people interested, how in the world am I suggesting anything different from what I said in my original "Yo Yo Thread?"
SuperNova wrote:
You see this as me "crippling the experience" when that simply isn't the case. When you saw map-voting, you immediately assumed I was some jerk who only played 4 maps, which isn't true either.
That is "maintaining activity" only for a specific group of people (let me use the word "pros" again). For a good chunk of people it's doing just the opposite. I got disgusted of CTF not because there are "noobs switching teams every few seconds", but because I found out that zdctfmp servers with voting enabled cycle through 5 maps over and over. That's what I call crippling the CTF experience for a regular player.
For the record, there was no "public" and "private" CTF before. There was just "CTF". And there was activity. And more than now. Now Euro CTF is dead.
what I and others stated that if you put voting on a public zdctfmp server without restrictions, all what you will see being played are 5 maps out of 30, please, this is not up for a debate, it's a fact. And I'm not saying it's you the jerk that would abuse the voting for playing only 5 maps, but other people would for sure.
SuperNova wrote:
First off, let's take a look back again at how many maps I actually wanted to have removed. [...] So you made it seem like I named off a ton of different maps when the reality is, I only named 5
If I take it you want removed those maps you didn't mention in your post as good ones for you, I see 13 maps, including zdctfmp3, of course. And the DUI server in question in fact has removed nearly half of the maps, as you can see, here is the maplist as of 15th Nov.
I think it'a shame if the certain "high-ranking" (ok, let's not use the term "pro" all the time) part of the community influences the rest in such a way that it selects which maps are so bad that they never deserve being played for fun on a public server, where as most of these are in fact perfectly good for this purpose. Yeah, times change. Really nobody was bitching back in the day when map14 or map20 was on. People who do now must have been "raised" by something to this attitude and my opinion was that it's from the high class leagues, which use only the competitive maps. When you say "pro" players play various maps, you are talking about maps in the IDL wad, but this is about zdctfmp maps. And I say, "pros" want to play only the 5 maps from it.
I agree with you, SuperNova, that the IDL wad should definitely be run on a public server as well. DUI runs 2 public zdctfmp servers, perhaps it would be a good idea to suggest switching one to a public IDL one? I personally would be up for playing it. At least there would be some change from the zdctfmp stereotype, while still satisfying the zdctfmp-eaters due to a lot of maps from it included.
Let's talk about private CTF. You praise private CTF, you make it sound like private CTF is crucial for keeping ZDaemon alive, but that's not correct. It's public servers that your usual #zdplayers member or a completely new player come in contact with. Private CTF is meant for high skilled players.
How on Earth do you think that we can get new players by locking ourselves in private CTF servers and refusing to play otherwise? (SwiftShot?)
My "experience" with private CTF (Euro) can be summed as comparable to a visit of hell (depends on people in the server, of course, and the current amount of "pros" though):
10 minutes of waiting and stupid chitchat, 10 minutes of playing map01,
10 minutes of waiting and stupid chitchat, 10 minutes of playing map04,
10 minutes of waiting and stupid chitchat, 10 minutes of playing map08,
2 minutes of stupid chitchat, GGs, good night.
I remember, in private CTF, as a captain, I once selected map07 for being played. I've been seriously asked whether it's a joke, and if yes, it's a very bad one. So I submissively changed for map01 or 08 or something and almost started crying what the community has turned into. xD
Then you claim how private CTF is about variety, Hatred (unless you meant IDL only).
As I said, it's not always like this, but sometimes it is, and that doesn't make me much passionate about private CTF, eh. I say "no, thanks" to private CTF.
Joined: 19 Sep 2009 Location: Coventry, Warwickshire, England
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:32 pm Post subject: Re: About public and private CTF
Konar6 wrote:
Let's talk about private CTF. You praise private CTF, you make it sound like private CTF is crucial for keeping ZDaemon alive, but that's not correct. It's public servers that your usual #zdplayers member or a completely new player come in contact with. Private CTF is meant for high skilled players.
I dont mean to say Private CTF is crucial to keeping ZD alive. I was trying to point out that say if there was 'No Priv', do you think many of these 'pro' players would stick around? Look now for example, for the past 2 months there has been hardly any Euro Priv action, and that has lead to >>> many of Europe's 'pro players' to leaving (or inactivity). To be honest, if I was told that there was no more private ctf servers anymore, just public, I wouldnt stick around (and I very much doubt the rest of the 'pro' community would do either).
Quote:
How on Earth do you think that we can get new players by locking ourselves in private CTF servers and refusing to play otherwise? (SwiftShot?)
Since the decline of priv ctf the past few months ive played a few public games. Trust me, i'm not exaggerating when I say some of these people change teams every few seconds when they arent winning. Personally I wish some people would take a look at http://www.zdaemon.org/ctfguide.html before they actually play CTF. I'm sorry but I would prefer not to play with people who think its 'okay' to join the red team when they are winning 4-0 with an extra 4 players (Example from the other day). I dont mean to discourage new players, I would always welcome them, but surley you can understand why some people would prefer to play PRIV ctf than the above scenario.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Location: www.areashiftybun.com
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:53 pm Post subject:
While this topic I'm sure is a good idea, lets just stay away from the 'Unban IDL players' posts as Kilgore has made it quite clear the issue is closed for now. The last I was told was that IDL unban requests on the forums were not allowed. I know it might annoy some of you, and everyone has strong feelings on the matter, but I think it's for the best that we leave that issue behind at the moment as it will only encourage flames and other problems.
If you have an issue with this please talk to the staff privately as I'm sure they will be happy to talk to you about it.
Changing teams every few seconds? I guess you're exaggerating here, heh. Or if you really see this happening on a common basis, you should talk with server admins about it. I'm sure it's a bannable offense.
I haven't seen that happening for a while...in fact last time it was on a DUI NJ server and Domains sorted it out quickly. (see, it's not hard to resolve it on the US side atm)
It's more likely to be people joining on the team they logged in on w/o checking, or someone leaving mid-game that unbalances teams. (and that problem is age old and isn't there some stuff in .09 designed to stop that?)
Quote:
To be honest, if I was told that there was no more private ctf servers anymore, just public, I wouldnt stick around (and I very much doubt the rest of the 'pro' community would do either).
Well, the pro community only has itself to blame by creating the 3-map voting culture.
If you see IDL as the solution, then why can't we all have it? Replace ZDCTF with IDL in public and there you go...no more "bad zdctf maps" for people to whine about but still plenty of "good zdctf maps" for their cravings. And you can still play IDL in private, so why should it matter if we play it in public too?
Joined: 19 Sep 2009 Location: Coventry, Warwickshire, England
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:19 pm Post subject:
Thadeuss wrote:
While this topic I'm sure is a good idea, lets just stay away from the 'Unban IDL players' posts as Kilgore has made it quite clear the issue is closed for now.
Yo Thad, I'm guessing people were talking about the 'IDL' mappack. I dont think anyone has mentioned unbanning IDL players.
The Ultimate DooMer wrote:
If you see IDL as the solution, then why can't we all have it? Replace ZDCTF with IDL in public and there you go...no more "bad zdctf maps" for people to whine about but still plenty of "good zdctf maps" for their cravings. And you can still play IDL in private, so why should it matter if we play it in public too?
Yeah that would be cool, there's no problem with that idea. The problem I was on about before was that I was told that Cybershark wanted to convert the Private servers into Public ones.
Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Location: League Master Clan: .CI.
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:13 pm Post subject:
Why don't you all just play what you're happy with instead of spending 30mins typing up a post that maybe 3 people will give a crap about? People shouldn't have to justify why they play private only, it's their choice at the end of the day... Just let everyone get on.
Joined: 19 Sep 2009 Location: Coventry, Warwickshire, England
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:45 pm Post subject:
Alright so I am just gonna go in-depth here for a bit starting with Konar.
Quote:
That is "maintaining activity" only for a specific group of people (let me use the word "pros" again).
Are you insane? I know euro priv is gone but this whole thing is about maintaining activity for the public and I don't see how its for "the pros" when most "pros" hardly ever even go into pub games apart from Supernova and maybe a few others. Also, how is it for the "pros" when the whole server almost clears out in a public game? It sounds like you're making the idea of pro synonymous with the idea of pub which is very untrue.
Ok so then here is another question, do you play public games anymore? How recently do you play and pay attention to the amount of people that come and go in-between maps? How often have you seen map5 clear a server or have people run it? (which by the way is made harder by people who play seriously against a team that is running a map.) Maybe not as recently but if you ever bother to sit and watch server activity for all 32 maps I'm sure you'd come to a realization that some maps do kill the server activity.
Also, here is my biggest problem, you talk about euro priv and your experiences in it from what you recall from so long ago. It doesn't exist anymore obviously and you were hardly ever in any of the ones going on to this point or at all. So now you have a generalized idea about "priv" but what you don't realize is that there is more than just the euro priv. For a while there had always been the IW priv(when it was still alive) and then there is the oF priv too, and what most people here are talking about is the IDL priv - all in which you probably never stepped foot in once in all your time here and that host a wad with variety. So you sit here and criticize something you've never been in before? Or actually yet you haven't been in one recently? so I don't think you have much of a say on how you generalized priv to just play 5 maps, you should really come and play in them for once and see for yourself it's not the same five maps over and over.
Quote:
Let's talk about private CTF. You praise private CTF, you make it sound like private CTF is crucial for keeping ZDaemon alive...
It is keeping what competitive spirit is left in ZDaemon alive, not ZD in it's entirety. You have FYBO and ZDS helping spur some sort of activity and interest as well but both are more for fun than competition.
Quote:
How on Earth do you think that we can get new players by locking ourselves in private CTF servers and refusing to play otherwise?
Ok this is pretty contradictory for the fact that people were lobbying in the other thread for a better maplist for the public, and now you are saying we(the priv people, the ones lobbying for a better maplist for the public) are preventing new players from playing in pub games with our priv while at the same time we're trying to improve public ctf? It's not that we are trying to make it good for just us, hell we could just stay in priv if we wanted to, but it's everyone so for exactly that - for those new players to stick around because they have a more interesting maplists to play and the servers can be full for longer periods of time.
Quote:
Then you claim how private CTF is about variety, Hatred (unless you meant IDL only).
oF priv has the new IDL wad, IW priv had the previous IDL wad, and IDL priv obviously always had the latest wad, and in the end Euro priv had the latest IDL wad as well so I don't know, once again I'll just say play priv and see for yourself.
Chain in the last thread talked about cvars that would help prevent map voting abuse so he's right, why is it should it be on/off when you could set it to where they couldn't call any map again until 10 maps later with an improved maplist?
As for Cybershark, de-privatise IDL servers is not happening. The main fact that hosts can freely put up IDL2011 or any other IDL wad they want pretty much defeats that idea. There is no sense in doing that and where would the competitive spirit be at if there were no private servers? Since you know, that is where everything is competitive at least ctf wise.
Quote:
No. What is a joke is that the Euro CTF scene is a fucking ghost town, and yet you 'pro' players still think you can be precious about just who you play with
Well again, us 'pro' players freely gave the ip and pass away on here, so it's pretty much inviting anybody but no aliases. Even Mechanic is well behaved despite how he sometimes may act in public servers so definitely there is still something in each players, we just don't want 8v8 happening and somebody switching teams and doing all those things that make a public game public ctf.
Also since you don't play priv or pub from what I see most of what I've said to Konar also pertains to you too, so what you think is pretty much invalidated because you lack the info to make proper judgments.
From Konar
Quote:
High class leagues like IDL are to "blame" for this phenomenon. And don't take me wrong, I'm not bashing IDL or anything here, just saying that leagues like this are indirectly pushing people out of playing ZDaemon for fun and enjoying the variety that it offers to playing ZDaemon as CTF on a high competitive level, it raises these "pro" players I've defined before. Emphasis on indirectly - it doesn't force them, but it does have the tendency.Sure we need competition, but we need also the fun part.
Implying there is no fun in competition, if that was the case IDL or any other competitive league wouldn't last long.
I'm sorry for my rude tone so it seems but it's just annoying when people who no longer are up to date with certain stuff speak like if they do when they really don't. It's like asking someone who's been out for 20 years to help you with an everchanging subject.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Location: www.areashiftybun.com
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:30 am Post subject:
To be fair to Konar, he has been around a long time in ZD and he has played tons of public, private and competition games ( I played in a team with him in a tournament). The games Konar talked about where the clans in Europe all played each other regularly weren't all that long ago, maybe a year and a half to two years ago. I don't think private games destroy public, but when they aren't even advertised on the master, this is a problem for me. What all this boils down to imo isn't map choice as there are plenty of great maps out there, but rather that fewer people play ZD atm, at least with regards to CTF. People seem to frown on public these days, which is a mystery to me as most of these players learned to play there. I for one love public and private games for different reasons. Private games are fun, and they do increase your skill level, but public is a relaxed environment where you can try different things and it doesn't matter so much whether you win or lose.
Again, the problem for me is getting an influx of new players through advertising ZD and having a core of experienced players who are willing to help those new players get better through playing games with them. If we advertise ZD through services like Youtube for example, we will get a massive number of new players. Public and private games are both as good as each other for different reasons.
I think Konar has had a bad experience or view of Priv CTF (read: Euro priv) that he might think of it in a more negative fashion, so I don't think it's right to target him too much .
As several people will attest to, I play mostly anywhere there is good CTF going on. I used to be a regular in the priv sessions that were organized in #euro, until it died out in the last ~2 months or so. However, I have seen certain things in Euro priv that did piss me off a bit, but it mostly had to do with organization and the flow of the rounds. Not to offend anyone, but it seemed like between each round of Euro priv, people liked to get into discussions about the last map or someone would rage at the results, which caused the whole server to focus on that more than other things (like getting the next round going). Lastly, common courtesies like asking "is Red/Blue team ready?" after both teams devised a strategy for the incoming map weren't popular. In American priv, things get moving much more quickly and swiftly, but that could just be due to the fact that it has been around longer and people have beat/lost to everyone else, so the drama factor is largely gone.
With these facts out in the open, I can see how Konar would say that priv is the devil and that "pro" players infect public CTF with wanting to play the same maps over and over. It's simply not true though, for reasons explained in my previous posts in the other thread and Swift/Nero's observations.
Solutions?
People have mentioned using the IDL compilation, and that seems like a good idea on paper, except that it's not the epitome of great, competitive, and smooth-flowing maps. Many of the "hated" maps from your average public ZDCTF server share many similarities with some of the IDL wad's choices (Namely crap like IDL wad's OdaCTF MAP02 and "Generic Gray" from the 32in24 series).
People have posted their ideal ZDCTF rotations for public CTF. Domains has offered to mix things up a bit, so that's a great start. I know Konar is already good with his map selections at GV, so things are good on that end. I don't think entire chunks of maps need to be taken out of ZDCTF in order to have a good rotation (really just MAP06, MAP17, and MAP24...no more). Voting can remain disabled, but I would still recommend an honest look at all the server-side CVARS related to voting, not just "on/off."
Lastly, you want more people in one server going at it for hours? Forget half-assed compilations and rotations that don't make anyone happy. What ZD needs is (yes, I will say it) on-the-fly WAD loading like Odamex. It only makes sense, and it's funny that while they don't have some basic shit working, they have that golden feature. For those that aren't familiar, the feature allows the server to load several WADs instantaneously, without any MAP number conflicts (i.e. You can have dwango5, judas23, king1, d2map01, dweller2, moo2d, etc. in the same server in their original WADs, without any particular WAD's MAP## overwriting another's). Given Kilgore's tight schedule, this isn't something to expect in 1.09, but it wouldn't hurt to have a serious demand/discussions about it now.
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject:
Ok, so obviously the 'pro' players have some issues with playing public. But should they restrict themselves to private games even now when Euro CTF is dead?
Thadeuss wrote:
The reason the Euro CTF scene may seem a bit dead atm isn't because everyone is away playing private matches, but rather that a large number of regular players have had to take time away from playing for a while for various reasons at the same time.
I was thinking they'd just plain left.
Eitherway, the question must then be how can newbies be brought in to take their place? Continuing to hang around solely in the same (diminishing circles) to play more priv is clearly not the answer. Venturing into public servers to scout out talent for private games (or possibly even for your clan) is really the only way forward. Just remember, you were all public players until someone gave you a break.
Thadeuss wrote:
While private matches are, imo, the best way to play, public CTF was always the bed rock of the community and we should try and bring that back with some better map packs and perhaps try to mix it up a bit.
Other map packs don't even come into it at the moment, although it must be said that non-ZDCTF maps would certainly put well-grounded players on a more level playing field with others.
The Ultimate Doomer wrote:
...the CZ belief that high-turnout CTF games are just "meat". (and the fact that it spread to all other servers).
8on8 is not entirely for the birds, but it's certainly counterproductive on a great many maps. Even on ZDS, where the emphases are on fun and getting as many people into maps as possible, I seldom ran 16way on anything.
Konar6 wrote:
CShark, I see your whole point and while I am not the fan of private CTF myself, I see that people enjoy it and I don't agree with liquidating private servers, that's not a solution for anything, don't believe that people will go play public CTF instead. They need to be private servers.
I'm sure it used to be more the case that private servers would be set up as and when needed, not become a standard. But all I'm asking is for some of these packs that people are trying to promote be given some public airtime too. ZDECTF, CcoreCTF and the IDL packs are all recent victims of trying to be too leet for the general populace. The only reason I said about deprivatising the IDL servers is because I'm sure there are enough non-advertised servers for all the people that deserve to play them. But that was poorly thought-out, as sending people over to them makes it look like no-one plays CTF. So keep the advertised private servers for them, but just give lower-tier players the option of being able to play great packs like that too!
Konar6 wrote:
DUI runs 2 public zdctfmp servers, perhaps it would be a good idea to suggest switching one to a public IDL one?
It certainly couldn't hurt for a trial run, although I continue to be aghast at the ridiculous amount of bloat that's been stuffed into the 2011 edition. Needs a 'lite' version...
Konar6 wrote:
How on Earth do you think that we can get new players by locking ourselves in private CTF servers and refusing to play otherwise? (SwiftShot?)
Swiftshot talked around it, but never actually answered that question
Eagle-Eye wrote:
Why don't you all just play what you're happy with... People shouldn't have to justify why they play private only, it's their choice at the end of the day... Just let everyone get on.
Which'd be great in theory, if there was an 'everyone' in Europe atm...
Chainy has a great point about on-the-fly and seems spot-on about everything else too. I think the problem with voting thresholds is that too many server hosts are ignorant of them, and so it does very much become a case of 'on or off'
Joined: 05 Jan 2005 Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:27 pm Post subject:
How is it always going to be there if the players keep leaving and aren't being replaced? For a guy from down-under, who's already seen this happen to his own community, then you sure as hell are pretty clueless.
How is it always going to be there if the players keep leaving and aren't being replaced? For a guy from down-under, who's already seen this happen to his own community, then you sure as hell are pretty clueless.
There, I can do 'short and snappy' too
Wel thel reason i write short and snappy is that if i start writing out long posts no one gets what i am trying to say.......( Doesn't help with poor english and grammar skills )
Well i not sure when IDL started? But it seems that we are playing with people that joined a few years ago.? from what i have seen. the Reason for why "Down Under" went is because we were playing Public CTF... but everyone got sick of the unbalanced teams and was trying to sort it out at the end of each game so it could be fair. Or some people just can't stand losing so after one to three games that's it. Its not the fact we never had players, just was if certain players got on the same team ( People would kick up a huge stink about it and rage ). But when you have small community that only has Two counties that supply players you then only have a certain time frame when games get played .....
Ontopic..
Priv and public games have a totally different game play to them.. As you can trust players in priv games to RTF or help defend when needed or knoew when to attack ( even use TEAM CHAT ). I got sick and tired of games not been organized as a priv one.. Even before i found out that there were "PRIV" severs out there. i just couldn't take the noobness in public games. Can do your head in sometimes.
Besides you don't need pro players in public games as people can always learn off each other. PRIV isn't killing CTF, i just put it down to people having this bias opinion about this "PRIV CTF" While i never seen the people that are whining actually play a priv game before??
yep, the 'elites' should get off their locked servers and play some more pub. not just one or two, but all of them, because whenever i venture to public by myself, i get turned off within 2 or 3 maps because of retards not grasping the concept of balanced teams. needs more reasonable players to 'teach manners'. i do understand why they don't want to do it though, i'm guilty of that myself. it's exactly what TUD preaches as desirable:
8v8 clusterfucks and full maplists.
zdctf is a mess, there's almost no really good maps by design in it. some of them play well by accident (09, 16), some by being simple enough not to screw anything up (01, 18), some by introducing unplanned newschool features (08, 22, 26) or plain bugs (04). this is common to all ctf wads out there and it's because mappers rarely think everything through, they just 'try ideas'. i'm not trying to belittle anyone's accomplishments, but i can't imagine the authors really planned all the gameplay flow, chokepoints, points of interest... ctf switched to NS settings, evolved in cooperation and tactics and some maps didn't survive this transition. it's only natural.. do you see quake live using all the q3 stock maps?
you can't have full maplists on stable servers and expect people to bear with disfunctional maps, unbalanced maps, overcrowded maps, maps too large for 5v5-... all in one mishmash package. this could only work in ZDS or similar one time events, but whining about poor state of pub while keeping map05 and 06 in the zdctf rotation is painfully naive and equally blockheaded as rotating just 1-4-8-11. the IDL compilation selects the cream of the crop across most existing ctf wads and focuses consistently on the 3v3 to 5v5 scale. it could easily replace the usual zdctf servers without callvoting or maplists, but not 8v8 dui@nj. try zde3 for that, bwahahahhhhheehaheaha.. erm, pardon me.
Code:
idl-ist: omg this map is made of shit design and brain cancer; the balance fucks cows in retrospect. next map now or face my wrath!!1!
tud-ist: pah! how dare you not enjoy all maps on all settings? you need to see past gameplay and common sense, this is the epitome of awesomeness even in local mode!
this conversation only happened in my mind, but we all know it's true.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Location: www.areashiftybun.com
Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject:
I think it just comes down to taste. I actually like public BECAUSE it's different to private. I like big teams on a lot of the maps with lots of fragging and people running around like headless chickens. I don't mind the fact that you get unbalanced teams, in fact I make it a point to switch regardless if my team is winning if the teams become really unbalanced. I just enjoy the mayhem of it all. I love private equally but for VERY different reasons.
I would say though if I ran servers I wouldn't run every map in a pack as not all are suitable imo even for public.
how dare you not enjoy all maps on all settings? you need to see past gameplay and common sense, this is the epitome of awesomeness even in local mode!
There's rather a big difference between "not all maps that exist" (cos there are plenty that do suck) and "3 maps out of thousands that exist". (which is my beef here with the current ctf scene)
And we all know that's only part of the story, a lot of it is down simply to not wanting to leave the comfort zone and learn how to play unfamiliar maps...hence why they declare shenanigans when they can't figure a map out within a few frags.
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P.S.: be smart, run smartctf 4v4 pub servers!
Oh yeah I forgot, everything above 3v3 (or 4v4 sometimes) is just "meat". But can you imagine what it would be like if every ctf server was 3v3 or 4v4? That's right, much worse because it's even easier to unbalance teams than in 5v5. Not to mention a legion of bored spectators who don't want to lose their spot by trying to start up a game on another server.
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