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SuperNova
Unstoppable!


Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Toledo, OH, Clan: >AC<

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:27 am    Post subject: Yo Yo Reply with quote

The intention of this thread is not to bash, belittle or insult anyone mentioned. Therefore, before reading this, please understand that it will touch upon sensitive subjects, take criticism and possibly change minds!

This is it in a nutshell, my life story of doom:

At the tender age of 16, I began playing random coop and ffa with keyboard only - that was 6 years ago. When I turned 17, roughly, Zdaemon 1.08 was released. Not many of you remember this as it was a cloudy time in the history of ZDaemon. Cheaters ran rapid, ban evaders were enormous and the staff members were on edge everyday because of constant criticism from the general public. Of course, lest we not forget the promise of ZDaemon 1.09.

ZDaemon 1.09 promised us everything. Some rumors came out that it would create a vaccine to AIDS, cure cancer and turn Ralphis and Kilgore into best friends. ZDaemon 1.09 at that time had the hype of Duke Nukem Forever. The two biggest things on the agenda, from a public stand-point, were to find a ban system that simply could not be evaded and a net-code that would set standards unmatched by all other DooM Ports. Those were the days, weren't they?

That promise was made 5 years ago, meaning 90% of this community probably doesn't know anything about it or the significance of what it had to offer at that time. I'm not being impatient or demanding that it be released now nor am I expecting answers. I simply thought I'd point out that it's sad that nobody seems to embrace the idea of it anymore. We simply don't care. We don't bother to ask, see what's new with it, who could do what to help in anyway they could. So, you must be saying to yourselves, where is this going?

It's simple, it's a question that is always being asked and one half of the community is on board with it while the other half spends 4 hours of their day thinking about how they could try to be funny and come up with the classic comical conspiracy theorist comment. But let's not delay anymore, let's dive right into it:

Is DooM dying?

I could make a poll on this and I'm quite sure it'd be pretty even going both ways. Here's the scoop, folks: DooM is not dying nor is ZDaemon. It is slowing down, however. For the first time in the history of DooM, the next generation of players will not be as skilled or more skilled than the previous. What does this mean? Why is it this way? Who must we sacrifice to achieve DooM2 activity to it's glory days?

To be honest, there are no right or wrong answers. However, this is what I suspect:

Remember those times when half of UD was getting banned and DUI was the most hated clan around? Remember when DUI vs SIN shifted the spotlight from the burnt-out old guys the crafty new guys? Remember Joshsmith making the most infamous thread in clan history when DX challenged DUI? Remember people fighting in #zdplayers, arguing with staff members, people getting banned left and right in hilarious fashion?
Hell, who remembers codeimp (douche) dos attacking ZDaemon? Remember HC and all of their "retarded players not being worth shit (turns out, most of them are the best players in the world now)"? Remember Goatface challenging DUI and the thread disappearing in 20 minutes. Remember half of the community posting their dis-taste for Slayer? Do you remember? I do.

You know what else I remember? I remember when people used to want everyone hugging each other, not bickering and love being spread from player-to-player throughout ZDaemon. We've reached that stage now and have probably been set at it for the last year and a half. How much do you remember from the last year and a half from ZDaemon Public Relations and over-all Activity. I don't remember much. Do you see what I'm trying to say here? Can you wrap your heads around it and come to grips with what I'm saying? No? I'll explain.

The point is, although at one time ZDaemon was largely a very hostile environment, it was also highly active. Even then, I thought that such a community wouldn't last and wished for things to calm down. As that has happened, I have realized that as a result, nobody has done anything. The new players don't care, they are too dumb to become good and lack motivation to surpass their predecessors. Is this because there is no hate here? Is it because they have no reason to challenge anyone because nobody is good? I would say that although there are usually multiple reasons for something to occur, that may be one of the largest reasons why things have slowed down.

When ZDaemon was at it's peak of activity, everyone hated everyone pretty much. Even though a lot of us got along off the field, there was still the desire in all of us to improve and beat the living crap out of each other. In some ways, in fact, in most ways the IDL has destroyed clan-play. I don't think this is a bad thing though. The fact is, the IDL is pretty much an exclusive thing. It's mostly the same old players with a few newcomers every now and then. So, this makes me question what the new players are doing and why they aren't improving. I suspect that lack of dominant clans is a reason, as well. But what if IDL was publicly advertised by ZDaemon? What if our admins advised people to join it (not that they don't, I really don't know the scoop on that)? Would we see an increase in play? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

The real point here is that we all flip out over the stupidest things now and fail to remember how it used to be here. Back then, you couldn't bend over without someone putting a dick in your ass and fucking you until you farted piss out of your mouth. Now we're all just so peaceful.

So, this is what I think should be done:

1) Unban Ralphis. I know this is a touchy subject, but it has literally been half a decade now. I know the staff has their reasons but at this stage, I think the guy can do more good for the ZDaemon community than bad.

2) To everyone, make clans, play and don't shy away from competition. Don't be afraid to be hostile; hostility is what made Whiteboy the player he is today (he's p great). Practice, practice and practice. Hate me if you want, if it motivates you to play then good. This challenge is issued mainly to the newer guys.

3) Get out of #zdplayers and go play FFS. I would rather see all the community members in a coop server than sitting around in zdirc talking about nothing. I want to see the new blood gain skill and carry on what the greats like Raider, Kilgore, Nightfang, Ralphis and many others have helped build intentionally and unintentionally respectively.

4) Tear this thread apart, I don't care what you call me or what you say.
If it increases activity for clan-matches and other organized leagues, then do it.

5) This will seem like a bit kiss-ass and it is, but it's also the truth. Thank Kilgore, though the guy can be a little testy at times, he is the one guy I still see active and developing since I started this game, which was almost 7 years ago. Despite the fact that some of us don't agree with what he does at times, the fact is, he's worked his butt off to keep this going.

I don't really know what motivated me to post this honestly. I'm hoping that it gets a lot of reviews and people are enlightened somewhat. The thing for me is, I'm in the twilight of my playing days and the last thing I want to see is this community completely die. As I said, though there are times I'd like to forget and people I don't care for too much (even to this day), I still want to see this community and game carry on when I'm gone. Part of me wants it to be like that so I can come around in 5 years and see that it's still active and being played. Perhaps this is like a man on his deathbed praying for things to change before he dies so that he can go out knowing it's not hopeless. I would love to see this place still alive in 5 years. So, whatever it takes, do it!
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Swag
Unstoppable!


Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Agree
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spacepirate
AssPants


Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Location: que pasa

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have noticed that there are just so less players that actually play. Now and then there is a public CTF going on, but only one server. I remember there were 3 full. So there I agree with you about go and PLAY FFS, live to win.

What also is at stake is that there are 10.000 clans and maybe 3 of them has 4 or more members. A lot of old players also quitted and just moved on.

And yes, players do only hang around in channels like PLAS, they do not play for pee.

We just need more people like that fat guy from South Park who is killing everyone in Warcraft. He plays goddamnit!

But see how many clans has died and how many are now ACTIVE, by active I mean: playing.

I do not agree with you that the developers do not do shit or that only Killgore does everything, they still fix bugs on a very short notice, see how the forum was changed and that fruity screen that got fixed... so no, they are still working.. I think.... I could be wrong.

What is also dead, is ZDreview... who will pick up on that???

Anyway, good post.
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Mindwipe
has entered the game!


Joined: 19 Jul 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gotta say, this place used to be the SHIT. It was awesome. It was a community unlike any other online community. I could go into a public server and recognize two-thirds of the people playing. Some enemies, some allies.

Every game was fiercely competitive, usually backed up by tons of drama/shit talking. Your clan was your identity, if your clan was remotely disliked by another clan, no one in that clan would give you any respect. It was wicked, made games so much more intense.

This game used to have the entertainment quality of a soap opera, then IDL turned it into Sportscenre, and now its essentially a tumbleweed and an empty saloon.

I've been off ZD for about 2 years now, and I come back and nobody has any sort of drive or competitive edge at all. Not even a little. Not only that but I spent hours and hours pumping out a few maps, trying to perfect them so that they might be something on here someday. Now -- I don't even see the point. No one's even going to take a quick look at them.

I was honestly debating just pissing someone off on the forums, just to get the activity ball moving. Just anybody. I'd really like to see some activity in this community. Legit, competitive, offensive, interesting activity.
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SuperNova
Unstoppable!


Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Toledo, OH, Clan: >AC<

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spacepitate wrote:
I do not agree with you that the developers do not do shit or that only Killgore does everything, they still fix bugs on a very short notice, see how the forum was changed and that fruity screen that got fixed... so no, they are still working.. I think.... I could be wrong.


Perhaps you misread, or perhaps I simply didn't go into enough depth. I wasn't suggesting that the ZDaemon developers don't do anything, I was merely pointing out that the promise of 1.09 was like gold to us back then and now nobody seems to care. I'm not rushing them and as I stated, they'll get it done when they get it done. Nor am I suggesting that Kilgore is the only developer (though from what I understand, at one point he was) I'm just pointing out that since I started, he's been the only one to be around, active and working on this program despite some of his health problems. It wasn't a matter of bashing other developers, it was pointing out the longevity and level of commitment that Kilgore continues to show. Like him or not, the guy keeps on working.

And I'm happy to see some immediate feedback. To be honest, I was wondering whether anyone would reply or not. So good job, folks - let's keep em' coming.
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Skitz0.X
Unstoppable!


Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: aka xtrackt

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a lot easier to sit back and reminisce about the good ole' days than it is to really do something to revive that energy and activity.

From my perspective, it's not really something that can be "fixed", it's just the natural entropy of a niche community. It's always been niche and those of us who were here from day one, who helped to build much of the memories and activity, had been Dooming for years prior as well.

Sometimes people just move on.

You talk to 20 different people on here and ask their opinion about it, you'll probably get 20 different answers.
It's just people moving on, this game being as old as it is and appealing to a very small corner of the gaming universe.

Good intentions of course. I think many of us get in that mood at least once. A little weepy eyed thinking of the good ole' days, wanting to rekindle it even for a moment.
That can sometimes become a habit. Just replaying a map or recreating situations in order to feel that "moment" once again. To recreate it. It never works, sometimes you can get close, but it never is as you remember.


-Skitz
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Quiksilver
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Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Location: Portlandia, Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 things.

1. I just got an email about reviving clan [SEXY] to merge with the Steam Clan [SEXY]. We got to talking, and the admin who emailed me pointed out that there are a TON of members in that clan, all play CS:S and all, and he would like for them to be acquainted with doom as well. This may bring in influx of competitive players. Cross your fingers. if even 10% of that group likes "fast paced" action, they will find themselves comfortable here I believe.

2. I think this niche community sucks, and you should all burn. Flame on, fatty's.*


*hope this helps, lol.

EDIT - I still think 1.09 will be our saviour. When it gets released, the fallout will include people modding and mapping specifically to cater to 1.09's new features. Also, this mapping competition we got going, that's gonna pump out 17 or so new duel maps. At that number, 5 or so will likely me good enough tobe replayed. Or hell, even the ZDUEL.WAD that gets compiled may itself just be an epic replayable duel wad.

Mapping competitions may be a fantastic idea, and will create potential to replace the over played maps of yesteryear. I think there should be a ban on maps that are overplayed. It feels boring to play the same old. Boredom. thats the enemy. So I agree, maybe flaming and namecalling is the SPICE that kicks players up a notch or two in skill. What do you think?
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SuperNova
Unstoppable!


Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Toledo, OH, Clan: >AC<

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you somewhat, Skitz. Sure, the community will never be what it was - although I don't view this as a bad thing. It's a matter clanplay being null and all of the good players being in an "underground scene." Some of this is done for obvious reasons but imagine if IDL was open to the public. The question I find myself asking when I do that is would that be a good thing or bad thing? What if it got tons of sign-ups and it expanded to say, 12 to 16 teams? Would that be a good thing because of all the potential activity or not? It's hard to say.

Nonetheless, it is still definitely the same old players playing in the competitive leagues and in some ways, I regret that. I wish it was more open and it had enough interest from the general public to expand teams and go from 3v3 to 4v4 but I don't know how that would affect level of play. That is what I'm concerned with naturally but I suppose the payoff would be new players becoming active in competitive venues and improving, perhaps carrying on the torch.

And I should probably point out that this thread wasn't some last-ditch effort to get people playing, I honestly can't control that and wouldn't expect to. I suppose that it's a reflection of 7 years of dooming I've had and how things are so different now. I guess it's more about me being in a weird mood at 4 in the morning and not being able to sleep. Nonetheless, I pretty much stand by what I've said, even if it was a total emotional meltdown.
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Quiksilver
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Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Location: Portlandia, Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing hatred, and this is probably the saddest truth of all, but these new players, with their PlayBox's and 360 Stations, and Weee's, don't know what it felt like that first time you saw a cyberdemon while playing with only keyboard and your only thought is "....holy....shit...." What sucks is, after discovering ZD, I can't find a game that satisfies my need for quick reflex action. Nothing compares besides MAYBE Unreal and Quake. But even THOSE don't feel quite right. its..... TOO smooth. I dunno. If you grew up with DooM, you'll alwas love it, but if you didn't, you just can't pick it up as easily if you've played COD all your gaming life.

I wish the John's would come save us, maybe help make some engine improvements or something, or release a doom that FEELS like these classic ones.
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Skitz0.X
Unstoppable!


Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: aka xtrackt

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quick note on what Hatred said about the IDL.

I'm not sure what people's intentions ever were with IDL, as I never took part, but if it originated with a goal of keeping it somewhat exclusive, it's ironic that now it finds itself seeking to open their doors to expand activity.

In such a small community as this, it's never a good idea to try and make some exclusive "club" or "league". Events or competitions or anything like that should always be 100% open in my opinion, if only because of how small this community is anyway.

-Skitz
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SuperNova
Unstoppable!


Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Toledo, OH, Clan: >AC<

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you make a fair point, Quik. But in all honesty, I don't buy the idea of people being hooked on new games forever. The one thing about DooM2 is that it's still played in it's original state with a few new twists. Plus, it's a game where experience points aren't what separates the good from the bad - the beautiful thing about ZDaemon is that nobody really cares much. If I was a Cod2 player, I'd stop playing it when Cod3 came out because cod2 was the same crap gameplay and got boring with nothing enticing to stay around. In my opinion, DooM and Quake are the few games that can still offer the same game-play while remaining remotely the same and not requiring you to buy a completely new video game to cure your boredom of it. Though Quake has what, 4 different versions (Quake, Quake2, 3, 4, u get the point)? Doom has 3, going on 4. But in Quake, all versions aside from the original are actively still played as far as I know, or at least they were a year or two ago when I joined ASE quake2 servers. DooM2 is still active and I never got into DooM 3. So I guess I'm saying that ZDaemon has a lot of potential because it can continue to offer the competitive play without demanding major, costly upgrades.
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spacepirate
AssPants


Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Location: que pasa

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand, you do not know what the future will bring. Maybe it will come back. But as the gaming community is growing very fast and very good games is coming out.. it will be harder.
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SuperNova
Unstoppable!


Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Toledo, OH, Clan: >AC<

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skitz0.X wrote:
A quick note on what Hatred said about the IDL.

I'm not sure what people's intentions ever were with IDL, as I never took part, but if it originated with a goal of keeping it somewhat exclusive, it's ironic that now it finds itself seeking to open their doors to expand activity.

In such a small community as this, it's never a good idea to try and make some exclusive "club" or "league". Events or competitions or anything like that should always be 100% open in my opinion, if only because of how small this community is anyway.

-Skitz


Yeah, to be honest Skitz I never played a critical role in the development of IDL, this is actually my first full season (and last most likely). I do remember when it was created, roughly around 2005, 2006ish. The original intent, I suppose, was to build a league of talented players and competition that would one day grow. Although at time, half of the players involved were banned from the community (most of them ended up being unbanned) so perhaps that was another reason.

I couldn't agree more though. I love the IDL but I may be one of the few who actually wants to see it ran publicly on ZDaemon. The benefits are endless and it's an opportunity for every player to improve and play directly along side their predecessors. I express this interest because I have an image in my head of 20-some IDL teams with todays players along side the new, rather lower-tier players. To me, that would be better than Clanwars and what-not (though I would love to see the return of that).

However, the likely hood of this is most likely slim. As stated, it's simply what I'd wish to see, not what I expect. The IDL has become much less exclusive in the last few years, inviting anyone who is interested in playing to tag along. So I'm not saying it's been from a lack of effort but in fairness, competitive leagues will always be somewhat exclusive, even if it is open to public sign-ups. Look at ZDDL, though the public is welcome to join whenever they see fit, it will still be ran and have database kept on it's own site, so by definition that and in itself is an act of exclusion. Nonetheless, if this were to ever happen, I think the sky would be the limit.
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RTB
On a Rampage!


Joined: 05 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm the BEST doomer to date, BEST 1v1er ever BEST ctf player ever. IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE THE BALLS TO PLAY THE BEST MESSAGE FLUFFLES IN EITHER ZDPLAYERS #XXX OR QUAKENET #IDL. I dont care what time what server play me and you'll soon know how much of a crap player you really are!
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Cybershark
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperNova wrote:
ZDaemon 1.09 at that time had the hype of Duke Nukem Forever.

That's not the only comparison between the two. George Broussard didn't know when to call time and release the thing, instead he just kept updating and adding to the code. Eventually the publishers just gave up on the money pit it had become. Not like the players here will give up, but it's simple logic: set out the goals for your project and go do it, because if you keep moving the finish line then it's never gonna make it over it Wink

Spacepirate wrote:
What is also dead, is ZDreview... who will pick up on that???

Actually it's not dead at all. Raider's just recently been fixing it up. As for anyone reviewing for it...
Mindwipe wrote:
Not only that but I spent hours and hours pumping out a few maps, trying to perfect them so that they might be something on here someday. Now -- I don't even see the point. No one's even going to take a quick look at them.

This.

We don't have anywhere near the number of projects being worked on that they have over on ST, yet I'd say that a smaller percentage of new material gets played here. And that's despite ZD having far more servers. Instead of a community like DoomWorld where people practically fight over reviewing 'newstuff' then here you just have a contagious apathy.
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soncdoommario
Unstoppable!


Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Location: Attleboro, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, 1.08.09 will feature almost all of what 1.09 will have to offer. Hell, look at the changelog. The ZD development team is on the doorstep of 150 changes (and that's 50 more than the 1.08.08 release!). I'm very excited for this release, and it will be more than wonderful for the ZDaemon community. We're just waiting for that day where it goes live. It's like a ticking time bomb. Besides, I'm happy that ZDaemon is a lot more cleaned up playability-wise, and the upcoming releases will only make it better.

I still pop in for FFA from time to time. And I still don't know how @&!$(*@&$(*@&$( Brit10 is still popular.

BTW, as far as the upcoming releases go, well, you can't rush art. Razz
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mikehail
On a Rampage!


Joined: 24 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skitz0.X wrote:
A quick note on what Hatred said about the IDL.

I'm not sure what people's intentions ever were with IDL, as I never took part, but if it originated with a goal of keeping it somewhat exclusive, it's ironic that now it finds itself seeking to open their doors to expand activity.

In such a small community as this, it's never a good idea to try and make some exclusive "club" or "league". Events or competitions or anything like that should always be 100% open in my opinion, if only because of how small this community is anyway.
-Skitz


I do not think IDL was meant to be exclusive; however, I was not around since the inception. As far as I can remember the IDL was created not to exclude other players, but rather to create a place for them to gather and play together. Of course with high level competition, its impossible to involve everybody who is interested within a structured league according to their whims.

Also I am pretty sure that the "exclusivity" is more or less an attempt to gather more active, reliable, known players to keep out less savory types (cheaters, aliasers, unreliable players LB Surprised) I am sure people were excluded based on what group they played for etc etc but we still had a lot of players come in. IDL has probably had a player from every single top clan play in it since its inception (from america at least) Besides that of course, the league seems to have evolved so much more quickly in terms of skill it is sort of self sustaining. Players might join public games but not want to play very long because of the massive skill gap, having grown accustomed to playing with more experienced players.

SuperNova wrote:

I couldn't agree more though. I love the IDL but I may be one of the few who actually wants to see it ran publicly on ZDaemon. The benefits are endless and it's an opportunity for every player to improve and play directly along side their predecessors. I express this interest because I have an image in my head of 20-some IDL teams with todays players along side the new, rather lower-tier players. To me, that would be better than Clanwars and what-not (though I would love to see the return of that).

However, the likely hood of this is most likely slim. As stated, it's simply what I'd wish to see, not what I expect. The IDL has become much less exclusive in the last few years, inviting anyone who is interested in playing to tag along. So I'm not saying it's been from a lack of effort but in fairness, competitive leagues will always be somewhat exclusive, even if it is open to public sign-ups. Look at ZDDL, though the public is welcome to join whenever they see fit, it will still be ran and have database kept on it's own site, so by definition that and in itself is an act of exclusion. Nonetheless, if this were to ever happen, I think the sky would be the limit.


I think most involved would prefer if the IDL was ran publicly and from what I understand there is little stopping that. Playing on private servers is annoying at best and quite damaging long term. Players cannot watch the games currently in progress although more have been capable of watching now that Jehar has been streaming some games for us when he has time, but these types of things are not readily available to the newer players who can benefit most from watching these games.
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Quiksilver
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Joined: 02 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good idea would be to have Rus promote his Ruscast of the IDL games here on ZD. Then players would be like "wow, somebody watches us play games and makes it so the whole world is capable of watching me flag and frag? Awesome!"

I know for certain, the "top tier" players have somewhat of a name made for themself here, and I for one watch the Ruscasts just to watch my favorite IDL player play!*

*Who happens to be the awesome Quiksilver
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ItalianStallion
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Montreal,QC,CA.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must agree, this community isn't nearly as amusing as it once was. Coming home every day to see some new clan form, or a clan challenge on the forums was the shit. Now? I see new clans forming, but don't hear anything about them. Clan wars aren't wars, they're all friendly and gay, no one wants to watch that crap. WHERE'S TEH ANGER?!

Yes the IDL should be public, for these new players to see what being skilled in this game takes, and how to acheive it. But honestly, I don't think it would work out. Why? I'll tell you why....

NOOBS!

This new generation of gamers are a bunch of whiny noobs. Look at all the most played games (new) that are out now. WoW? CoD? Halo? Give me a break, these are all games that require little to no effort to excel at. And the games that require time and patience to actually be good at are shunned and labeled as a bad game.
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switcher
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy fuck Hatred, if you're in your twilight, I must be at sometime around tomorrow afternoon by now! Very Happy

Anyway, take it from an old DooMer, these ARE the good old days.
When I started playing ZDaemon in 2004, I was trying to relive the good old days of playing keyboard modem DooM back in the 90s.
I didn't realize it at the time, but I was actually playing in some NEW good old days of GSN Dwango5 FFA...

Then came some more good old days when toke's OMGMAPS took off.
Then came the good old days when CTF was new....
Then came the "golden age" of clans...
Then came the "golden age" of CTF...
And so on and so on... and so on.

I still play regularly and I know that some day I'll look back on these days as good old days, once certain players and characters of today disappear and are replaced with the next generation of players.
We've seen this happen again and again over the years, it's just the natural turnover of attrition. I can probably think of 20 names in a couple of minutes that you would never have thought of ever again, but I know you'd say "oh ya I remember that dude from back then"!

So I think we relate bygone eras more with particular players and clans than anything else. When these players and clans disappear forever, we look back upon those memories and create the nostalgia in our own minds because so few of us have stood the test of time here.

This is probably why most of the still active old time players who used to hate each other now look at each other with a feeling of comradery and respect for hanging around the same game together for all these years.

Sure there was some fun and friendly animosity during the clan war days.
Heck, I've taken so much crap and abuse over the years just for being in DUI.
Mostly from some previously mentioned jerks who I could walk all over today! Twisted Evil
Oh, but there's no pent up, left over, ready to boil over animosity though.
At least that's what my shrink keeps telling me. Evil or Very Mad

I've been playing a lot of CTF lately with [DUI]Death, and getting back into some FFA action after a several year layoff of my old nick. But no one seems to react to the DUI tag too much these days.

So I'd be willing to rev up DUI again, and take on some newer, non old fart members, if Ro would ever read this and give His blessing.
If that happened, everyone could once again have a common focal point for their hatred.

I'd even post up some more stir the shit up threads again... especially for all of you short tempered SR-50 multikey-bind cheaters out there! Wink (You know who YOU are - and so do WE!)

So that's it.
Ya baby, I'm talkin' smack!
That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!
So deal.


DUI Forever

All The way!
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