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Force respawn and death limit in tourneys
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Thadeuss
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Location: www.areashiftybun.com

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kind of agree with Chow here, delaying your game or spawns is just the same as camping somewhere on map01 for example. I'm sure there's a demo around somewhere where badfish and urhash both camped for nearly half an hour before the first frag was had. Hilarious, but if players want to camp it's their choice.

Sure players not spawning for ages gets annoying, but I think people should have the option of not spawning for a bit to delay the game. 20 seconds is as low as I would go with forcing respawn, but if I had my way if you HAVE to have it, make it about a minute.
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HumanBones
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Joined: 01 Jun 2004
Location: Shangri-La Dee Da

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forcing respawn is not something I would ever consider to be a good idea. You know, if someone wants to spam the BFG right after killing you in 1on1, thats fine, but you should also be able to not spawn to avoid it. Any smart-ish player knows not to spam the BFG like that anyway, at least I hope so. Any smart-ish player also knows when to delay respawning.

Also, unless you're playing with someone who isn't very good, there doesn't tend to be much camping. There is a difference between camping and slowing the game down, and to be honest I don't have a huge problem with camping anyway. I feel like its part of the game and for me its more challenging to kill an opponent who's camping.

Obviously, someone who just wont respawn in a tourney match will be disqualified. I don't think we'll find too many players doing that sort of stuff in a tourney match anyhow.
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dewww
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well.. yes, that's the second option. we can have a rule stating that players who excessively interfere with the match proceeding will get DQ'd. in practice, running out of deathlimit and jumping to spectator without telling your opponent you need a time out would mean forfeiting the match on yourself. for convenience reasons (oblacek customizable default value), this would be the aforementioned 45 seconds.

on the other hand, the NS-style tourneys could have forced respawns... and relatively short deathlimit, too. item control is much more important and waiting dead for everything to respawn breaks the concept. having to hide with a lower stack is part of the quakeish gameplay.
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Thadeuss
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Location: www.areashiftybun.com

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you force people to re-spawn it's going to give certain players an advantage. For example, anyone who's played me on d5m1 will know you're in for a 20- 30 minute match and if the game is moving too fast for me, I'll delay my spawns. It's a play choice, call it gamesmanship, but it's part of the game.

I think you will turn some players away from tourneys if you start pushing certain styles onto 1on1.
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Dopefish
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Location: From the shadows I come!

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5 s
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spacepirate
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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Location: que pasa

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dewww wrote:
spacepirate wrote:
If you can't handle the game, don't play it. If you do get pissed off, your a bad player.

i guess that's why you never play anything. now stop being all philosphical. either give ingame examples for your reasoning or stop trolling a thread that doesn't even concern you.


The example is me. I have played a few 1on1 games before and I remember one game where I played in dwango5, I got like 20-10 on him and then he started to NOT instand respawn, I got really pissed and annoyed and thought, what the hell, like you can win this way you noob SPAWN! Then after a while when he got 3 kills in a row I got so pissed I kept respawning very instant and he got a multi kill on me. I smacked on my keyboard Razz and went a little berserk, (maybe a little bit like the German kid, DUTCH KID) and my game went totally off. In a matter of fact, he won the game.

This is clearly an example of annoy the shit out of your opponent what is a tactic. I think he didn't knew I got pissed, but it did work, and for future players, you can try to annoy players.

And the reason I don't play anything is because whenever I log on I want to play a CTF game, but there aren't any games going on or I just have weird dutch times I dunno.
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DX-Chain
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Dew is likely wondering about this more than anything:

spacepirate wrote:
...It is really a BIG part of being a very good superstar player...
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spacepirate
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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Location: que pasa

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is. Sure you guys are good and know all the tactics, movements, aim and psychology. But try to think out of the box. And actually learn new tactics to even improve MORE.

A superstar players will NEVER make a little island and stand in the middle thinking, the way I play it, IS the way, no questions asked all fuck off.

But on the other hand, who cares. Razz you keep on winning...
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The Ultimate DooMer
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Joined: 30 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dewww wrote:
on the other hand, the NS-style tourneys could have forced respawns... and relatively short deathlimit, too. item control is much more important and waiting dead for everything to respawn breaks the concept. having to hide with a lower stack is part of the quakeish gameplay.


On the other hand, your opponent could also pick up the item once it's respawned (and in fact could be camping it if he knows you haven't come back yet).
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Solar_Flare
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Joined: 01 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, let's have a tournament match.
You kill me and I idle for 10 minutes, how does that sound?

Originally this was about the death limit time to prevent the scenario above and not how zd should be played. I say 15 seconds, but this kind of 'problem' doesn't matter when you're playing against a player who is patient since they'll be waiting for you anyways, it only pertains to those who find it annoying and irritating.
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Konar6
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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Location: Czech Republic

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar_Flare wrote:
Yes, let's have a tournament match.
You kill me and I idle for 10 minutes, how does that sound?


Sounds like
HumanBones wrote:
Obviously, someone who just wont respawn in a tourney match will be disqualified.
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WhiteKnight
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Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The standard ZD "spectate thing if you're dead for 180 seconds" should be reduced to maybe 40 seconds for tournament matches. Then if you get booted in to spectator mode, whoops you've just forfeited your match. Unless you have a legitimate excuse ie. timeout or fire or hamster escaping (you get my drift)

I don't see it any different to camping really. I personally will stay did if my opponent is shooting the bfg at spawn points or is spawn camping. I also very occasionally delay my respawn just to settle down a little as my hands are appalling when I get a little "pressured" shall we say.

There are loads of arguments for/against this but I'd either leave it as it is or do what zddl have done but maybe leave it a little longer. 40 seconds is nice!
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mikehail
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sorta feel like dew got jumped all over for little reason here. He is simply looking for a way to make a tournament game less prone to gayness by players abusing certain features in doom duel. Just to clarify a little, if I were playing whiteknight on d5m1 with a 40 second force-spawn and decided I hate his guts or whatever and waited 40 seconds for every spawn, that would put the game at about 35 minutes. Throw in the rest of d5m1 and lets say he wants to add in some slow spawns of his own, and you could have a game heading towards an hour pretty easily. But you couldn't DQ me because I was simply doing whatever was allowed in the rules. It is obvious there should be some minimum, this isn't PBEM chess game, its a deathmatch! I dunno if that sounds fun to you, but I wouldn't ever play a tournament again if that happened, I am probably a baby tho Wink

Doom deathmatch is so unique (and broken without a respawn timelimit) you either like it or you don't, anyways screw it lets all play ctf Cool
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Solar_Flare
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Joined: 01 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konar6 wrote:
Solar_Flare wrote:
Yes, let's have a tournament match.
You kill me and I idle for 10 minutes, how does that sound?


Sounds like
HumanBones wrote:
Obviously, someone who just wont respawn in a tourney match will be disqualified.


Only works if it is stated in the tournament rules.
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cha0tix
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Chicago, IL Hangout: #DarkAlley @ OFTC

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar_Flare wrote:
Konar6 wrote:
Solar_Flare wrote:
Yes, let's have a tournament match.
You kill me and I idle for 10 minutes, how does that sound?


Sounds like
HumanBones wrote:
Obviously, someone who just wont respawn in a tourney match will be disqualified.


Only works if it is stated in the tournament rules.


I am pretty sure common sense would dictate that person be disqualified.
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dewww
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

common sense.. ahahah a ahah ah
Crying or Very sad
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Solar_Flare
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Joined: 01 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cha0tix wrote:
Solar_Flare wrote:
Konar6 wrote:
Solar_Flare wrote:
Yes, let's have a tournament match.
You kill me and I idle for 10 minutes, how does that sound?


Sounds like
HumanBones wrote:
Obviously, someone who just wont respawn in a tourney match will be disqualified.


Only works if it is stated in the tournament rules.


I am pretty sure common sense would dictate that person be disqualified.


I am pretty sure you don't know what that person may be doing or thinking whoever it may be.
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spacepirate
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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Location: que pasa

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar_Flare wrote:
cha0tix wrote:
Solar_Flare wrote:
Konar6 wrote:
Solar_Flare wrote:
Yes, let's have a tournament match.
You kill me and I idle for 10 minutes, how does that sound?


Sounds like
HumanBones wrote:
Obviously, someone who just wont respawn in a tourney match will be disqualified.


Only works if it is stated in the tournament rules.


I am pretty sure common sense would dictate that person be disqualified.


I am pretty sure you don't know what that person may be doing or thinking whoever it may be.


I am pretty sure so many quote in quote looks cool.
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cha0tix
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Chicago, IL Hangout: #DarkAlley @ OFTC

PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar_Flare wrote:
I am pretty sure you don't know what that person may be doing or thinking whoever it may be.


If someone leaves for 10 minutes without saying anything, it might be acceptable for that one time. If they're constantly doing it, then OBVIOUSLY its a problem.

Lets make sure you don't admin any tourneys in the future. Wink
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Emui-Tan
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Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: /!\

PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Readed it and realized one horrible thing - so "uniqueness of doom's gameflow" is when pro-wannabie turns a certain fps game with most fastly running player into dull boring chewing gum with all that so called "tactic" crap like spawn delays, playing on bad maps, and other camping? Or i readed wrong, and "uniqueness" isnt because of it?/!\
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