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Weird things happen when loading large maps.

 
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Empyre
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Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:34 pm    Post subject: Weird things happen when loading large maps. Reply with quote

When loading large maps, like maps 5, 6, and 7 in my wad, weird things happen.

Sometimes, certain things are invisible to a player, and not always the same things. Sometimes it is obstacles like trees and torches, but sometimes it is pick-ups like health and armor. Sometimes, it is even other players, who appear to the affected player as if they were still spectating, even though they can still be heard and their shots can be seen.

Sometimes, a player will see his own name either blank or replaced by what appears to be a few characters of code.

What makes it extra weird is that the weirdness happens differently every time.

I have heard rumors that 1.09 will load large maps better, but I decided that it would be wise not to assume the rumors are true, and let you know about this, just in csae you didn't, although you probably do.
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EarthQuake
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Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio. Dieblieber gonna getcha!

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of mapsize, those maps you listed aren't even close to being considered "large". There isn't really anything unusual about them, except for a bunch of broken sectors, which shouldn't result in the problems you described. The thing counts are also pretty acceptable, with maybe map07 being an exception. The more things a map has, the more likely the game will display invisible objects. The magic number (for me) seems to be under 1000, although it's difficult to determine because it depends on the connection to the server.

Kilgore has considered adding a map thing flag (and a DeHackEd-style actor flag), that will prevent any things with it enabled from being sent between the server and client, thus always ensuring they are drawn. This will mostly be used for decorations that will never move or be manipulated. You won't be able to use it on things like monsters or items, but at least it will lower the chances of things disappearing.

The only suggestion I would have for you would be to use large ammo where you have groups of small ammo, and reduce the number of weaker monsters by replacing groups of them with one or two stronger monsters. Also, active monsters use more bandwidth than inactive ones, from my experience, so using the deaf flag or sound-blocking linedefs where appropriate, would help things too.

The deal with players becoming invisible or displaying weird names is due to packetloss. This occurs because the connection is being blasted with all the things that have to be sent back and forth.


Last edited by EarthQuake on Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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soncdoommario
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Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Location: Attleboro, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have over like 800 monsters in the map? Coop is very high-trafficked (Is that even a word?), and it only improves slightly as the amount of active monsters decrease, but it still is quite a big mess.

Alien Vendetta Maps 25 and 26 come to mind, and sometimes, Map27. With a much improved netcode in 1.09, there will most likely be considerable improvements in performance, and I've had this breif talk with Kilgore and Doom2Pro.

I'm not speaking for them, but let's wait and see for one of the admins to come in and clarify this, to see how ZDaemon is progressing on this.
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Kilgore
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Up the river

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Empyre: sounds like packet loss; happens when there are many things to spawn on connect. This should be improved with new netcode: search the forum for some posts by timeofdeath who reported the same issues.

soncdoommario: you will see stuff when it's done. The feedback you get from here about how bugs get fixed/features get implemented (as well as the changelog) is the "progress report" you're asking for. I'd really wish if you guys stop asking about when this and that is gonna be done. There are already so many things getting fixed and you guys keep pushing; you'll achieve the inverse result at the end and you won't like it. Trust me on that.
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