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The Dead Lives p-1 - SP/COOP
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Tuomio
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Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: The Dead Lives p-1 - SP/COOP Reply with quote



Hey folks. I finished this faster than I thought, I've been fa- mapping furiously.

This is a Singleplayer / Coop pwad for Ultimate Doom, and made with Doom configuration. First episode is named The Dead Lives and it contains 9 freshly made maps. Episode starts with easy maps, then it gets harder the further you go.

I made sure that this pwad will work with all ports, including Chocolate-Doom, PRBoom and ZDoom. And Original Doom.exe of course. So there should be no problem with compatibility.

DMFLAG1: 4931588
DMFLAG2: 360032
MAPS: e1m1-e1m9
PLAYERS: 1-4(6?)

DOWNLOAD LINK: http://tuomio.oxyhost.com/tdeadl.zip
edit: fixed few doors.
edit2: omg, it sucks when you notice so many errors after the release. Please download the newest.

Stay tuned for the next episode: Dead Abyss!
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TheCupboard
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Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*silence*

OK GUYS I'm going to play this. I'll give some comments or something. Looks swell so far!
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ZERO99
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

after the 2nd map i didnt bother playing the rest but i did have a look at the rest of the maps.

if you have played any other doom 1 coop you have played this wad. It doesnt do anything different or special just the usual coop scheme of get keys, open doors with keys, hit switches to open new area's nothing special or entirely new just the same old.

One thing that pissed me off was the terrible texturing. i dont even think you attempted to line them up in some places like it was just a total rush job and some other spots they were correctly placed but i wonder if they are correctly placed just due to the default settings and not your doing.

not giving this a "score" out of 10 because thats just stupid.
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TheCupboard
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Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really, this is very well done. Great gameplay, I thought. There was some good enemy placement and I liked how the plasma rifle and rocket launcher were easily available. This episode feels pretty faithful to the original E1 (though it does feel darker and with some more texture variety). I've jotted down some things I noticed while playing.

1. Watch your pegging. You have some window sills and upper textures which could be pegged or manually adjusted so they blend in better with the other textures. At the moment, you have some misalignments.

2. The lighting felt a little uniform in some areas. I noticed some differences but it would have been cool to have some really bright lights in some shadowy areas - just to change things up.

3. There were some nice fights. I liked the one at the end of e1m4 especially.

4. I liked how you used nice simple details even though you have some large sectors. A lot of authors get a self-conscious about those bare spots on the walls (me included) but there's nothing wrong at all with some blank space (gives it a nice, older feel I think). E1M9 was bare but had a nice progression (I liked those packs of enemies).

5. Nice work on the architecture overall. The height differences in E1M2 were well created. I also liked how the levels sort of flowed so that after you found a key, you would immediately find the door it went to. That was really a nice addition because I get tired of door hunts. It makes for some constant, fluid action as opposed to disjointed firefights followed by door/key searching.

Great job overall. The beginning of E1M8 was classy. Unfortunately, there isn't a lot for modern authors to do with the final baron fight since it seems that fighting a few barons isn't near the challenge of what it used to be ten years ago. Your final fight was still nice, though. I almost got myself killed with the invisibility sphere, too. Smile

Good job on this episode! This is probably ready to be put on the idgames archive unless you wanted to fix some of your texture misalignments. I'm looking forward to your episode two theme. Not many authors have done maps in that style so it's always interesting to see something like that created. Episode two of Doom had some of the most unusual maps in the whole game so I'm eager to see your rendition of it. Very Happy

PS: There's an HOM on the blue keycard platform on E1M5 (I think that was the map). Razz
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spacepirate
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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Location: que pasa

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah man, the texturing is sometimes or actually a lot unaligned. But not too worry, that does make it feel oldschool. Razz

The levels were very doomy but as ZERO said, after 2 maps I got bored too.

Cool piece though, hope you make other episodes. But maybe more variety in the maps.

But the maps were cool. Nice enviroments to fight and I liked the dark rooms. Good thinking. Wink
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Tuomio
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Joined: 28 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the comments guys, and yes, I have noticed the texture alignments n stuff, but I have updated this wad like 3 times after the release, I certainly didn't bother. I'll update it when I'm done with the second episode.

ABOUT THE DETAILZ: I designed this to work in original EXE, so I had to tear down SOME DETAILS. I would have detailed the walls like crazy bitch, but I simply could not. Original exe/chocolate-doom has this thing called "VISPLANES"

Rush job? Certainly not.


ZERO99, here is a right wad for you; coopbuildm.
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ZERO99
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Location: lolololololol

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuomio wrote:

ZERO99, here is a right wad for you; coopbuildm.



Ok you struck a wrong note with me, anyone who thinks coopbuild is a rush job or disrespects it dont know shit and clearly does not respect pioneers of the mapping community here. Toke was an amazing mapper and coopbuild has gameplay way better then your crap coop that does not do anything different what so ever from the original doom. Toke set the standard for extreme coop play and deserves some damn respect for it because coop would be totally fucking boring with out his contribution. Most of the maps may not be pretty but damn he created something original in a sea of unoriginality that is the zdaemon mapping community.

you people wonder why people dont play our stuff its because its been done before and done better and not by some douche who thinks his shit dont stink. This is why i have given up on mapping not because of the people not playing newer wads. It is because of the community behind it is full of ignorant fucktards. Anyone who was actually worth paying attention too never gets popular because they did something original, you mappers are to stupid to realise it was something original and great but you just take it as crap because its not the same old as shit you ripped of some other guys wad who ripped it off someone else.

i think its about time i hung up my doom building tools for this community and maybe forever, enjoy your sea of shit.
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Ronald
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Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Netherlands Clan: [QnB]

PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZERO99 wrote:
Tuomio wrote:

ZERO99, here is a right wad for you; coopbuildm.



Ok you struck a wrong note with me, anyone who thinks coopbuild is a rush job or disrespects it dont know shit and clearly does not respect pioneers of the mapping community here.


Mind if I lol at this? If there's someone disrespectful here, it's you. You're free to have your opinion here, but that doesn't mean everyone shares it. And it's very childish of you to say that Tuomio's wad sucks because he doesn't share your opinion about coopbuildlm. Which is, in my opinion, a heap of sectors filled with monsters and definitely rushed. Yet I admit it has been a revolution in online coop play.

On the other hand, maybe Tuomio's comment on directing you to coopbuildlm was childish too, or wasn't it? If you had read through the threads concerning this wad you would have seen that he stated clearly that this was going to be like the Ultimate Doom. Then what else could you have expected? You're just way out of line here my friend.

Tuomio, this is amazing piece work man. I'm already working on a review, but I have some more checking out to do before I can round it up. Expect it soon. Wink
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spacepirate
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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love ZDrama. Who wants some popcorn?
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SuperNova
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Joined: 12 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SG_Trogan series is the best coop wad of all time. Seriously, that's what will set a precedence for "extreme coop."
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Tuomio
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Joined: 28 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZERO99:

I have no problem with negative reviews and comments, but the fact that you come and give me your "review" after playing the first two maps of the wad tells me something about you and your review.
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ZERO99
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrote:

The levels were very doomy but as ZERO said, after 2 maps I got bored too.


I dont need to play the rest of the maps to know how they will play you didnt do anything diffrent then anyone else who makes doom 1 coops. It takes more effort to say something is bad and give reasons for it then just the usual forumtards around here that just say good gameplay, good detail, good this and that and the other thing, then never play it again or look at it again.


I usually keep my mouth shut in this section because i usually dont have many nice things to say but since people seem to bitch about not getting any reviews (i being one), i figured id start throwing my input but it seems no one likes anything i give in to this community as usual so you all can fuck off.
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Eagle-Eye
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Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My review.

I like the wad, thanks. I shall be playing some more shortly as I've reached only map 04. It reflects the original Doom very well as I know was intended, so you did the job you wanted to. You didn't make something that wasn't very orginal doom like, a good example of this being coopbuild.

waaahhhhh.
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TheCupboard
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Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZERO99 wrote:
I dont need to play the rest of the maps to know how they will play

If you have played a number of multi-level wads by a single author, you would steadily see an improvement as the maps progress. Authors often become more skillful as they go on, so no, you cannot know how all of the maps in a wad will play without actually playing them. I get tired of E1 themed maps after a while (like yourself), but I recognize that it's my own lack of tolerance for the style rather than a bad wad that is repelling me.

ZERO99 wrote:
you didnt do anything diffrent then anyone else who makes doom 1 coops.

Your mind is not going to be blown by 95% of the wads that you play. Honestly, it's a pretty high standard to set for authors if a wad can't be good unless it is revolutionary. You only set yourself up for disappointment when you do that.

There's only so much that you can do with the engine you have to work with. Pretty much all Doom/Doom 2 wads follow a basic format involving key hunts, small skirmishes, big brawls, switch puzzles, monster closets, etc. For instance, there are about a dozen major archetypes in fiction novels that plots and characters fall into. People still enjoy these stories and fiction is probably the most appreciated genre out of all writing. My point is that there are some basic mechanics in Doom that you are never going to change but they are precisely the ones that make people enjoy this game.

ZERO99 wrote:
It takes more effort to say something is bad and give reasons for it then just the usual forumtards around here that just say good gameplay, good detail, good this and that and the other thing, then never play it again or look at it again.


To convincingly say something is favorable or unfavorable, you must back up your argument with reasons and specific examples to support your viewpoint. So I agree with you that it takes more effort to back up an opinion than to just leave a general positive/negative comment.
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Geit-vd-plas
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with 099. He never said that it should've been revolutionary; just that he didn't like it that much. Maybe not too subtle, but quit crying already Razz

I also agree about the shitty reviews thing. I mean when people say they like the wad it's always nice to hear. It's just that mapmakers deserve more then that Razz

We gotta find another way to show some love to the map makers. Maybe we should talk about a new kind of system that can replace the good old dead ZDreview system. If we can somehow set a standard again. Showing only the worthy review worthy wad reviews an a page Razz accesable for anyone, not just forum members. That'd be awesome.

ZDreview as it was, worked.. untill cybershark got a full-time job out of it!
I have some ideas.. but first.. anyone? who's with me?!
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ZERO99
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*raises hand*
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SuperNova
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geit-vd-plas wrote:
I agree with 099. He never said that it should've been revolutionary; just that he didn't like it that much. Maybe not too subtle, but quit crying already Razz

I also agree about the shitty reviews thing. I mean when people say they like the wad it's always nice to hear. It's just that mapmakers deserve more then that Razz

We gotta find another way to show some love to the map makers. Maybe we should talk about a new kind of system that can replace the good old dead ZDreview system. If we can somehow set a standard again. Showing only the worthy review worthy wad reviews an a page Razz accesable for anyone, not just forum members. That'd be awesome.

ZDreview as it was, worked.. untill cybershark got a full-time job out of it!
I have some ideas.. but first.. anyone? who's with me?!


That's the worst idea I think I've ever heard. Honestly, I think most of the mappers who are worth something understand that ZDReview is better suited for advertising their wad, not so much receiving some feedback. What do you want, a prize or something? Mapping is fun and it benefits the community but I don't think it should be taken serious to that point.

Anyway, after reading some of Zero's and Cup's posts, I pretty much have to agree with Cup. Zero sounds like a clone of vampy. I.E wah wah wah, why is nobody paying attention to me. Get over yourself, you're a decent mapper, but you've not been here long enough nor do you carry the weight to come around and tell people how their maps are shitty without using the same old "it's finding keys, killing monsters, ect"--in fact, I don't think anyone does.

I don't really have much more to add. The thing that provides the most amusement out of all of this for me is the fact that Tuomio is probably about 1,000x better than you in mapping and Doom as well. Just thought I'd point that out. Wink

And to close this off, Cup is the man and is totally right. No, Zero didn't come out and use the word "revolutionary" but I think it's clear to those who have the ability to read between the lines that those are his expectations. And if that's what you expect from a 15 year old game with this engine, then I suggest you quit playing Doom all-together, because you're going to spend a lot of time crying about being disappointed all the time.
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theDooMguy
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Joined: 07 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nova, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's just senseless to expect something new and unusual from an e1-style WAD. That doesn't mean someone can't do a really good job at it and make a good fun WAD, but it will be similar to many other wads out there simply because there are so many wads in that style.
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Alfred
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I uhh realized I had yet to coment on this. Liked it very much, seems a lot like the Doom shareware I used to play quite often, the couple maps I have had time to go through and play. Its very well put together, not at all a rushed feeling and well deserving of praise. However, it really is Doom 1 over again, thats not a bad thing, just saying.

Keep up the good work Tuomio, I can appreciate a good single player every now and again. Smile
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Cybershark
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha this is great to see people getting so aggressive over this. Like Zero says then it's easy to say 'ok WAD - I liked' but by slinging a bit of shit in here then he's gotten some much better responses from people Very Happy

ZERO99 wrote:
if you have played any other doom 1 coop you have played this wad. It doesnt do anything different or special just the usual coop scheme of get keys, open doors with keys, hit switches to open new area's nothing special or entirely new just the same old.

This is entirely fair I guess. Back when Tuo first started posting screenshots of this I nearly said something about how they all looked boring as fuck. Not to say that the maps are but the screenshots he was showing off... well I don't think anybody could have gotten excited about those even back in '93. Thankfully they got better and the maps aren't that dull.

ZERO99 wrote:
One thing that pissed me off was the terrible texturing. i dont even think you attempted to line them up in some places like it was just a total rush job and some other spots they were correctly placed but i wonder if they are correctly placed just due to the default settings and not your doing.

Uh.. well surely that's a part of the E1 experience too?

If you go into this expecting ultra-detail and Void-style gameplay then you're obviously going to be disappointed. Sure it's classic Doom and it's been done to death but these maps will still appeal to people who can't get enough of that or feel like reliving the original maps. That doesn't mean Tuomio's not got other tricks up his sleeve, just that this project wasn't the place to use them. Go check out his Nightmare WAD if you want something different.

Tuomio wrote:
ZERO99:

I have no problem with negative reviews and comments, but the fact that you come and give me your "review" after playing the first two maps of the wad tells me something about you and your review.

Well the maps aren't all that dissimilar to each other. He did say he looked at the later ones.
Not everyone feels a need to kill every monster and find every inch of secret of each and every map before they give some feedback Wink

Geit-vd-plas wrote:
We gotta find another way to show some love to the map makers. Maybe we should talk about a new kind of system that can replace the good old dead ZDreview system. If we can somehow set a standard again. Showing only the worthy review worthy wad reviews an a page Razz accesable for anyone, not just forum members. That'd be awesome.

ZDreview as it was, worked.. untill cybershark got a full-time job out of it!
I have some ideas.. but first.. anyone? who's with me?!

Yeah I kinda lost the will here with the site being down and it being me providing 90% of the feedback. Obviously not everything dumped in here deserves in-depth criticism and it shouldn't all be about nut-hugging people who don't need it... but I'd be interested to hear any thoughts you got here. We should talk on irc, or go make another thread Smile

SuperNova wrote:
SG_Trogun series is the best coop wad of all time. Seriously, that's what will set a precedence for "extreme coop."

TROGUN FUCKING OWNS.
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