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DuckReconMajor
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Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:47 am    Post subject: New Person's Questions Reply with quote

Hello, I've been playing ZDaemon for a couple of weeks and it's been great Very Happy . I just have a few questions:

1. What is the ideal mouse sensitivity? I have it now with Overall Sensitivity all the way up and left the other sliders alone, but I don't want to find out that I've had it all wrong and have to learn again.
2. Is running around using the 45-degree walk-strafe thing that makes you go faster a good thing? Or should you just move normally?
3. What are wall runs? Is this running inside the wall or against the wall or what?

As the total n00b I am, I'll probably have more questions to come. Confused
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TheMionicDonut
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Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1.) Ive never changed it, so the default is fine.
2.) Strafe Running allows you to move faster it allows for ebetter escapes in CTF. Unless getting intercepted and dropping the flag is your bag, be sure to learn how to strafe run.
3.) running against the wall sometimes allows you to move faster as well, but its too much of a pain to utilize in any mode aside from Racing. Razz
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ItalianStallion
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Montreal,QC,CA.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I try to use the highest sensitivity I can handle.
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pErf3ct _DaRk_
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Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Location: France - Teh 21

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So MionicDonut has points here Smile
Well to respond your questions :
1°)The best sensivity is the one you feel the most on your ease with. Don't schearch for the best set-up, schearch for the best results Smile
2°)Indeed straffrun is an essential thing, in many tems. To answer your question, yes, you moove at 128% of the normal speed when doing a basic straff 40 (forward + side straffing); You can reach 148% by straff50 but it's more difficult to initiate and doesn't allow you to turn.
3°)A wall run is a glitch in the Doom source code that allows you to reach insane speeds when straffing towards a wall. These walls are in the most cases oriented South/North, and it works only from to the north (If I'm not mistaken). To do this, just initiate a basic straff40 near a wall, if you do this correctly, you'll go very fast Smile
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switcher
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Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Location: DUI All The Way

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1/ The mouse settings in ZDaemon are totally dependent on what the mouse settings are for your PC, so everyone can have a different answer for this one.
2/ You must strafe run at all times... once you are used to it, you will never use normal run for anything. Eventually, learn how to SR-50 correctly (not the one-key bind cheater's way) and use that for all straightaways.
3/ Wall running works on N/S walls... you strafe run along the wall and zooooom! It can be fun but you will not find it useful in a game at this point in your career. By the time you orientate yourself correctly against the wall you will be dead.

By the way, welcome to ZDaemon, I hope you have a long and happy stay!
See you on the field! Wink
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DuckReconMajor
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Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you guys for all your help Very Happy .

I looked up Straferunning in Doom Wiki and just have one question, when you do sr-50 do you bind turn left and right to q and e or something like that or do you just drag the mouse across the pad for the second strafe?
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switcher
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Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Location: DUI All The Way

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to hit 5 keys at once to SR-50 strafe run correctly, for example SR-50 orientation right would be hitting the run + forward + strafe right + turn right and stafe on keys at the same time.
It is really not so difficult if you plan your keys out to fit your fingers.
A way was discovered to bind several functions to one key to make SR-50 easier, but it is considered a cheat by most players.
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Shakal
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Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fact of the matter is binding SR-50 to one key isnt a cheat and much easier to use.

Dont be daunted by that cheating nonsense. No one important actually cares if you use it or not.
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Cybershark
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha Switch, surprised none of them have dropped by yet to say "ZOMG TIS NOT CHEAT!"

Hi newguy! Nice to see some fresh forum blood appearing Smile
Gotta say I'd seen your name around and wondered at first if you were qwaszx. So how many ducks you found so far?

switcher wrote:
1/ The mouse settings in ZDaemon are totally dependent on what the mouse settings are for your PC, so everyone can have a different answer for this one.

He speak tr00!

switcher wrote:
3/ Wall running works on N/S walls... you strafe run along the wall and zooooom! It can be fun but you will not find it useful in a game at this point in your career. By the time you orientate yourself correctly against the wall you will be dead.

One place that's pretty easy to use it is the walls between the bases in ZDCTF map01 but meh, it's not something I'm keen on.


EDIT: LOL Shak just squeezed in there Smile
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Serp_i_Molot
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Location: Knee Deep in the Dead

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheMionicDonut wrote:
3.) running against the wall sometimes allows you to move faster as well, but its too much of a pain to utilize in any mode aside from Racing. Razz

Sometimes, if you know which walls you can wallrun, it can be pretty useful in a duel: the other person will have a hard time locking in on you and you can keep wallrunning until you kill your opponent. Twisted Evil Don't use it all the time, you become predictable that way.
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switcher
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Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Location: DUI All The Way

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shakal wrote:
Fact of the matter is binding SR-50 to one key isnt a cheat and much easier to use.

Dont be daunted by that cheating nonsense. No one important actually cares if you use it or not.


I heard that the multi bind key flaw may be corrected in an upcoming version.
When that happens, those who were too lazy to learn the proper way to run SR-50 are going to look pretty slow all of a sudden.
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enVision
A.K.A. Rat-Arsed


Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Location: Lagland

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one key SR50 thing has been branded as a cheat because it allows even the noobiest of noobs to perform whats seen as a complex manoeuvre and that detracts from the game. Things like turn180 will also be talking the walk too and anything else that is regarded as 'un-natural' movement (except freelook and jump).
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switcher
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Joined: 26 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought it was funny to see an obvious n00b who can not move or shoot suddenly speeding away with SR-50.

And Shakal, don't you think it is a cheat when you take the time and effort to learn a difficult skill in a game and then 10 years later someone comes up with a way to make it so easy that a baby could do it?

SR-50 was the most difficult skill to master in this game.

Now this cheat effectively gives the SR-50 skill away for free to all the Johnny-Come-Latelys.

So technically no it's not cheating - yet.

But morally, yes, of course it is cheating all of those players out of the time and effort they made to learn SR-50 before this cheat was discovered.

Don't you think the use of steroids is cheating legitimate athletes out of the time and effort that they've put into honest training?
What once took a dedicated athlete three years of training can now be done by just about anyone in only one year with steroids... is that not cheating?

Of course, coming from TC with murky credentials, I would not expect the Admiral to agree that anything is cheating.

But hey, that's just my opinion and as Shakal has taken his time to point out, I am not important.
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Scave
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Joined: 10 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. What horrible arguments.
switcher wrote:
Of course, coming from TC with murky credentials, I would not expect the Admiral to agree that anything is cheating.
Ad Hominem
switcher wrote:
Don't you think the use of steroids is cheating legitimate athletes out of the time and effort that they've put into honest training?
What once took a dedicated athlete three years of training can now be done by just about anyone in only one year with steroids... is that not cheating?
False analogy with a touch of petitio principii.

switcher wrote:
And Shakal, don't you think it is a cheat when you take the time and effort to learn a difficult skill in a game and then 10 years later someone comes up with a way to make it so easy that a baby could do it?

SR-50 was the most difficult skill to master in this game.

Now this cheat effectively gives the SR-50 skill away for free to all the Johnny-Come-Latelys.

So technically no it's not cheating - yet.

But morally, yes, of course it is cheating all of those players out of the time and effort they made to learn SR-50 before this cheat was discovered.
I'm not sure if there's a latin origin for this one. I prefer to call it the boo-fucking-hoo fallacy. What ever happened to 'adapt and overcome'?
Just give the guy straight answers (which I see has been done) and let it go.
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switcher
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Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Location: DUI All The Way

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's see if anyone else thinks this is fair or cheating.
I think you'll find yourself in the minority on this one.
And the analogy with regards to time spent learning a skill and find it;s all been a waste because of cheaters is quite accurate.
Oh wait, let me guess, you also use one key SR-50?
And if you think it is not a cheat because anyone can do it well, so is aimbot, will you defend aimbots now too?
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DX-Chain
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The topic of cheating can be quite subjective...

Let's say we have two teams, Team A and Team B. Ok, Team A is playing in its own server and is getting owned by Team B. One could argue that Team A is cheating when they start kicking players from Team B so that they can win a meaningless little round of public CTF Surprised.
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Xenaero
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Joined: 23 May 2003
Location: United States Clan: UniDoom

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

enVision wrote:
The one key SR50 thing has been branded as a cheat because it allows even the noobiest of noobs to perform whats seen as a complex manoeuvre and that detracts from the game. Things like turn180 will also be talking the walk too and anything else that is regarded as 'un-natural' movement (except freelook and jump).


How interesting. Abilities built into the source port are branded as cheats? I find it amusing that there are shortcuts to pulling these off, that are branded as such, and yet there are such stout supporters of bugs like the plasma bump. Rolling Eyes Doesn't matter if it was intended to be used like it was or not, does it? The fact is, everyone uses it. Do you really think that this is going to be branded as a cheat just because there's an easier way to do it? Well, damn, you can say that about a lot in this game.

switcher wrote:
I heard that the multi bind key flaw may be corrected in an upcoming version.
When that happens, those who were too lazy to learn the proper way to run SR-50 are going to look pretty slow all of a sudden.


I don't see how it affects you in such a way that you really care about people who use a 1-key SR50. Does it really help you so drastically that its usage is the difference between 50-49 and 50-30 in a 1v1, or 5-0 and 5-4 in CTF? No, not really. If you really did know anything about this game, you wouldn't be getting all upset over this. Think this is a personal attack? I'm sure you do. But it's not. I'm pointing out the idiocy in getting all riled up over this completely stupid 'point', which really is just an arguing ground for the elitist players, such as yourself, JKist, Devastation, and other self-proclaimed oldschoolers. I never saw anything like this back then, where you people got your panties into a bunch because there was a simpler way of achieving a goal. The old idiom of 'adapt and overcome' seems not to apply to you, if you're calling for a removal of a 1-key solution. Am I the only 'oldschooler' left with a sense of honor and sportsmanship, switcher?

switcher wrote:
I always thought it was funny to see an obvious n00b who can not move or shoot suddenly speeding away with SR-50.


Funny how? That they're not as skilled in movement or aim, but know how to use a tool that simply requires a few keypresses normally? Please.

switcher wrote:
And Shakal, don't you think it is a cheat when you take the time and effort to learn a difficult skill in a game and then 10 years later someone comes up with a way to make it so easy that a baby could do it?


Here's the part I don't understand, how does it affect you? Because if indeed this bit was true...

switcher wrote:
SR-50 was the most difficult skill to master in this game.


...Which, is up for debate, considering there are many different skills that many players could consider the most difficult to learn and master, then you wouldn't be throwing a fit over this. After all, you can use it under .exe circumstances, can you not? Therefore, the change does not affect you, and as a result, there is no need to keep harping on players for being 'cheaters' in using the one-key solution.

switcher wrote:
Now this cheat effectively gives the SR-50 skill away for free to all the Johnny-Come-Latelys.

So technically no it's not cheating - yet.


What? This is one hell of a self-contradiction. You label it as a cheat in the first sentence, then in the second line, you said it's not a cheat. Make up your mind.

switcher wrote:
But morally, yes, of course it is cheating all of those players out of the time and effort they made to learn SR-50 before this cheat was discovered.


Oh, morally cheating. In an online game? Umm, yeah. See, there's a problem with a person if you think you're being cheated on, just because there's an easier method of doing something, and you're using a harder method just to justify an argument against the former? That seems like you're going out of your way, there, when it's clearly self-contained in the source port, it's available to everyone who wants to use it. Don't be like that, man. That's like me saying using a quick weapon switch before I pick up a new weapon, so I can fire said new weapon faster as a result, is cheating because I usually just switch on pickup, and as a result, I get blown away. Do you think that's a stupid analogy to make? Look at what you're arguing about!

switcher wrote:
Don't you think the use of steroids is cheating legitimate athletes out of the time and effort that they've put into honest training?
What once took a dedicated athlete three years of training can now be done by just about anyone in only one year with steroids... is that not cheating?


Speaking of stupid analogies. Hey, look. Athletic activities that involve steroids are a completely different story compared to a trick in a video game that you can use with only one key instead of multiple keys. Steroids, well, hell yeah, of course it's cheating. But you compare steroid usage in sports to this? If anything, I'd compare steroid usage to aimbotting, if I had to compare it to anything.

switcher wrote:
Of course, coming from TC with murky credentials, I would not expect the Admiral to agree that anything is cheating.


What does this have to do with SR-50? Are you not above retorting in such a manner, effectively tacking on an insult after an argument?

switcher wrote:
But hey, that's just my opinion and as Shakal has taken his time to point out, I am not important.


And hey this is my opinion, too, so if you take it personally, that's fine with me. As if it'll really affect how I play this game.

Also, I learned SR-50 the 'hard way'. And now, I use a two-key solution. Why not one-key? Because two-key works better for my playing style. As a player, I have a dedication to my own skill and style, not a dedication towards policing others'.
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GhoulSlayeR
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some points coming from some of the "EXE Legends" who hack their doom2config to enable auto-run, Which was/is perfectly acceptable.

Traditional Sr50 wasn't hard at all for me to learn, took me only but a week or 2 to master it rofl, not no 1+ year(s) haha.

I use traditional sr50 thats the way I learned and thats the way I want to keep using it, I could honestly care less what other people do with their configuration. It doesn't give them any set advantages.


Last edited by GhoulSlayeR on Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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enVision
A.K.A. Rat-Arsed


Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Location: Lagland

PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xenaero wrote:
How interesting. Abilities built into the source port are branded as cheats? I find it amusing that there are shortcuts to pulling these off, that are branded as such, and yet there are such stout supporters of bugs like the plasma bump. Rolling Eyes Doesn't matter if it was intended to be used like it was or not, does it? The fact is, everyone uses it. Do you really think that this is going to be branded as a cheat just because there's an easier way to do it? Well, damn, you can say that about a lot in this game.

Plasma bump, wall run, silent bfg, etc. are all examples of bugs that have grown to be an integral part of the game. Turn180, bound sr50, etc. are the remnants from the zdoom port that haven't been taken out because, let's face it, there have been more important things to do.

You can't say the two are the same because they're clearly not.
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Xenaero
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

enVision wrote:

Plasma bump, wall run, silent bfg, etc. are all examples of bugs that have grown to be an integral part of the game. Turn180, bound sr50, etc. are the remnants from the zdoom port that haven't been taken out because, let's face it, there have been more important things to do.

You can't say the two are the same because they're clearly not.


And why would you take them out? Surely, they are growing to be a more integral part of the same just as the glitches and bugs that shipped with the original exe have. Are they to be taken out just to satisfy the elitism of a select few?

I have seen many complaints about the bound sr50 and such, but have not once, not once seen a legitimate reason for its removal.
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