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Cooperative Tournament

 
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Ronald
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Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Netherlands Clan: [QnB]

PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Cooperative Tournament Reply with quote

Ok, first let me make one thing clear here. I'm not trying to hijack Sniper's tournament here, but it appears he has given up on it. Since I'm really interested in a tournament like this, I would like to revive the idea.

The rules of this tournament are quite simple. The tournament will be played by having 2 vs 2 matches on MAP31 and MAP32 of Plutonia. Both teams will join the server on the same time. The team that kills most monsters on both maps wins.

Depending on how many teams will apply, a system will be created to determined which teams you will play. It will most likely be a system like they use during World Cup Soccer tournaments.

The four best teams will battle on a two different special maps which will not be given away just yet. These battles will determine the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place in the tournament.

Additional rules:

- No freelook;
- No Jumping;
- Items will respawn, except for mega-items;
- Weapons will stay;
- Startweapon is Pistol;
- You will respawn at the start of the map;
- Barrels won't respawn;
- Skill level 4, Ultra Violence;
- No falling damage;
- No team damage;
- Limited ammo;
- Monsters will behave normal, no fast or extra powerful monsters;
- Keys will be kept.

Questions? Post here!


Sign-ups are open now! The tournament will start on the 1st of September 2008. If you want to sign up, just post your team's information here in this thread. This first post will be updated each time a team decides to subscribe. Sign up now! If you dare...

Participating Teams

Team 1: [QnB]Ronald and [QnB]-Wilou84

[BE] Baguette Eaters
PPT: evenings (Europe)
Contact: [QnB]Ronald or [QnB]-Wilou84 in zdirc.

Names:
Team 2: Killemall and qwaszx

[NT] Nerd Team
PPT:
Contact:


Last edited by Ronald on Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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revstar
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm not sure where i mentioned a similar idea a while ago, but it might've just been in irc.

an idea is to take a demo and to time it. that way anyone can look and see how many monsters killed after 15 minutes. also, this would allow people from all over to compete without having to arrange common times for people to be on.

i'd like to participate but only if something is worked out over the time difference.

cheers
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Eagle-Eye
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Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: League Master Clan: .CI.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Cooperative Tournament Reply with quote

Ronald wrote:
The rules of this tournament are quite simple. The tournament will be played by having 2 vs 2 matches on MAP31 and MAP32 of Plutonia. Both teams will join the server on the same time. The team that kills most monsters on both maps wins.


Stupid idea.

All 4 players will be running to where the monsters are weakest and avoiding bigger monsters, rendering the idea pointless. Someone may spam exit while the other kills reincarnated monsters from archvile, so this will not work.

Maybe on Map32 I will keep killing myself to gain BFG again? I will not lose points for that??

Sniper's calculation idea was better, have it on timed/kills/deaths basis, not just petty monsters killed.

This needs alot more looking into.
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Ronald
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Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Netherlands Clan: [QnB]

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Cooperative Tournament Reply with quote

Eagle-Eye wrote:
Ronald wrote:
The rules of this tournament are quite simple. The tournament will be played by having 2 vs 2 matches on MAP31 and MAP32 of Plutonia. Both teams will join the server on the same time. The team that kills most monsters on both maps wins.


Stupid idea.

Maybe on Map32 I will keep killing myself to gain BFG again? I will not lose points for that??

Sniper's calculation idea was better, have it on timed/kills/deaths basis, not just petty monsters killed.

This needs alot more looking into.


Wow wow easy there mate! I have put some time in thinking about this one and it resulted in a simple system like this one.

Time can never be a deciding factor, unless it's based on individual teams joining the server and recording a demo. Simply because when it's based on time, the risk of cheating is there. A reconnect for example resets your time. Also even if it was based on demo's, teams would keep on trying to improve and of course send their best demo. To me, that's like playing a CTF map over and over until you succeed to beat the opponent.

Deaths on the other hand could be a deciding indeed. Because your kill counter will also be reset on a reconnect. I'll think about how this can be a deciding factor on the tournament, in a way so you prevent getting killed.

Eagle-Eye wrote:
All 4 players will be running to where the monsters are weakest and avoiding bigger monsters, rendering the idea pointless. Someone may spam exit while the other kills reincarnated monsters from archvile, so this will not work.


This doesn't matter much. In fact, it might even add a form of strategy on this tournament. Both teams join the server, so what happens there during the battle is totally up to the teams. If you catch the opposite team killing revived monsters, just kill the fecking Archvile. On top of that, all matches are individually between the two teams and have absolutely no influence on other matches. The only thing to worry about is to outsmart your opponent during the match. Saving bigger monsters for later can indeed be a good strategy on that.

revstar wrote:

i'd like to participate but only if something is worked out over the time difference


Don't worry, there should be something we could do about this right?
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Killemall
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Joined: 12 May 2007
Location: NEED QUACKUP Posts: 0

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

qwaszx on the other thread wrote:
Names:
Killemall, qwaszx

Team Name:
[NT] Nerd Team
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Ronald
Rontard


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Netherlands Clan: [QnB]

PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Killemall wrote:
qwaszx on the other thread wrote:
Names:
Killemall, qwaszx

Team Name:
[NT] Nerd Team


Great! Welcome to the tournament! And good luck! Razz
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dewww
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no monster infighting strategies? :(

simple kill count might not be the best idea.
go2it is a bfg fest and there's a room full of chaingunners.. that's like scoring a goal that counts for three :p also, one does not simply 'kill the av', there's a ton of them. basically, i can picture a frenetic chase for the weaker monsters, then sweeping whatever the avs resurrect or barons that cybies didnt massacre... and then you dance around cybies hoping you'll steal your opponent's kill. seriously, who would want to waste ammo on them? me, for instance.. i wouldn't fire until i hear my opponent's bfg heat up. it's not like there will be doomgod teams able to kill them with two perfect AND cooperated shots :)
solution? maybe point system with higher rewards for harder kills?

btw is it really wise to have all players compete at the same time?
you said yourself that deaths must be penalized in order to disallow easy ammo replenishment. well, with four players going all berserk with bfgs and rls, sooner or later someone gets thrown into a cybie's rocket. now either this is frowned upon, therefore people will start blaming the other team for ruining their game, or it is accepted as a competitive strategy, which imho leads to sniping my opponents into monster crowds to make them overpenalized.
solution? well, if you're able to ballance the death penalization and ammo replenishment in such a way that none of above will matter, i'll write an opera about your awesomeness. otherwise the teams should not play together.
oh, btw.. i think memento mori lvl31 has a partially parallel design, something along these lines might work there. on the other hand, it's not heavy weapons pornography, so it might not attract spammers :)
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Killemall
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Joined: 12 May 2007
Location: NEED QUACKUP Posts: 0

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, you can contact me in zdirc as [LAD]Killemall or ryama-vd-plas, and qwas in zdirc as qwaszx , siesta, or quack-vd-plas
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Tuomio
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Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dietest18 + nightmare-mode + infinite ammo + 10 deaths maximum + BFG

Who gets further/most kills wins (teams play seperately)


Let the Horror #01 Co-Op Tournament begin. Razz
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Ronald
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Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Location: Netherlands Clan: [QnB]

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dewww wrote:
no monster infighting strategies? Sad

simple kill count might not be the best idea.
go2it is a bfg fest and there's a room full of chaingunners.. that's like scoring a goal that counts for three :p also, one does not simply 'kill the av', there's a ton of them. basically, i can picture a frenetic chase for the weaker monsters, then sweeping whatever the avs resurrect or barons that cybies didnt massacre... and then you dance around cybies hoping you'll steal your opponent's kill. seriously, who would want to waste ammo on them? me, for instance.. i wouldn't fire until i hear my opponent's bfg heat up. it's not like there will be doomgod teams able to kill them with two perfect AND cooperated shots Smile
solution? maybe point system with higher rewards for harder kills?


Impossible. There is no way to tell who killed the Cyberdemon and it isn't shown on the scoreboard either.

dewww wrote:
btw is it really wise to have all players compete at the same time?
you said yourself that deaths must be penalized in order to disallow easy ammo replenishment. well, with four players going all berserk with bfgs and rls, sooner or later someone gets thrown into a cybie's rocket. now either this is frowned upon, therefore people will start blaming the other team for ruining their game, or it is accepted as a competitive strategy, which imho leads to sniping my opponents into monster crowds to make them overpenalized.
solution? well, if you're able to ballance the death penalization and ammo replenishment in such a way that none of above will matter, i'll write an opera about your awesomeness. otherwise the teams should not play together.


Both maps have plenty of ammo and item respawn is on. Every 30 seconds after pickup a fresh load of ammunition is respawned. I don't think that should be problem, what do you think?

dewww wrote:
oh, btw.. i think memento mori lvl31 has a partially parallel design, something along these lines might work there. on the other hand, it's not heavy weapons pornography, so it might not attract spammers Smile


I'll have a look at this tonight. (I'm at work right now)
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Eagle-Eye
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Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: League Master Clan: .CI.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuomio wrote:
dietest18 + nightmare-mode + infinite ammo + 10 deaths maximum + BFG

Who gets further/most kills wins (teams play seperately)


Let the Horror #01 Co-Op Tournament begin. Razz


That's fucking sick but I like your style! Dietest18 is a great wad imo for a tourney Cool
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revstar
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can't be stuffed quoting, so i'll just say:

i hope something can be worked out over the time difference. maybe to avoid teams recording multiple demos and sending the best one in, nominate a few "Tourney admins" who should join the server and make sure nothing dodgy goes on. they can only go in one game for each team, so a team has no chance of submitting multiple demos. and each team can complete the map at their leisure.

instead of teams going in a knockout comp, you could even turn it into "the top 8 teams move to the next round (most monsters killed/maps completed - see below)" and then the next time "top 4 teams move to the next round"

this means that even if you do well, you wont be knocked out by the super duper team in the first round Razz

also in terms of wads, and to go against this monster problem, choose a wad (like dest_uknown) which are quite easy to complete, and see how many maps can be completed in the specified time. or else see how long it takes to complete a single map (or 2 or 3). it would be good if the map/wad chosen has maps that aren't all about monster killing but have some skill/puzzlers to figure out.

also, do both players have to be spawned at all times? or can a player not spawn for a while as a strategy (to stay out of the way of the bfg or something...)
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qwaszx-
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Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Location: Somewhere in Gensokyo.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...
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