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Spawn Camping: Gay or Nay?
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DX-Chain
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:24 pm    Post subject: Spawn Camping: Gay or Nay? Reply with quote

I got home this morning and found a screenie posted by a clanmate on IRC, explaining that he was kicked from a noob server last night for spawn camping in CTF. It kinda reminded me about the eternal debate about the technique, so I ask you this:

Do you honestly think that in this day and age in modern Doom/FPS gaming that spawn camping is considered "gay"?

Personally, I don't care much about spawn camping. I figure "if I can do it, it's fine if the opponent can." There are also things one can do to avoid being spawn camped continuously, such as NOT running straight ahead (but backwards or sideways instead) at each spawn.

By the way, if you look in the DMFLAGS2 list, there is a flag called "player is temporarily invulnerable when respawned." So why aren't crybaby server admins using that flag instead of kicking/banning players for doing it? Laughing
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[SIN]Pride
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Joined: 29 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Spawn Camping: Gay or Nay? Reply with quote

Chaindude wrote:
I got home this morning and found a screenie posted by a clanmate on IRC, explaining that he was kicked from a noob server last night for spawn camping in CTF. It kinda reminded me about the eternal debate about the technique, so I ask you this:

Do you honestly think that in this day and age in modern Doom/FPS gaming that spawn camping is considered "gay"?

Personally, I don't care much about spawn camping. I figure "if I can do it, it's fine if the opponent can." There are also things one can do to avoid being spawn camped continuously, such as NOT running straight ahead (but backwards or sideways instead) at each spawn.

By the way, if you look in the DMFLAGS2 list, there is a flag called "player is temporarily invulnerable when respawned." So why aren't crybaby server admins using that flag instead of kicking/banning players for doing it? Laughing


100% agree with this. If the dmflags for spawn protection aren't on, expect it. Otherwise, put them on your noob-ass server.
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DarkeTiger
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Joined: 07 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm fine with spawn camping, its the basis of winning in 1on1

As for regular camping, I'm only okay with it if it isn't constant/the person is moving around from point to point in-game
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<Cacodemon>
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As said above, it's all about the dmflags.. If spawn protection is disabled, you gotta deal with it now and again.. No point in banning another player if you have the flag disabled in the first place. Laughing

It's all down to the person who set up the server..
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ufon
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Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Location: Czech republic

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Spawn Camping: Gay or Nay? Reply with quote

[SIN]Pride wrote:
Chaindude wrote:
I got home this morning and found a screenie posted by a clanmate on IRC, explaining that he was kicked from a noob server last night for spawn camping in CTF. It kinda reminded me about the eternal debate about the technique, so I ask you this:

Do you honestly think that in this day and age in modern Doom/FPS gaming that spawn camping is considered "gay"?

Personally, I don't care much about spawn camping. I figure "if I can do it, it's fine if the opponent can." There are also things one can do to avoid being spawn camped continuously, such as NOT running straight ahead (but backwards or sideways instead) at each spawn.

By the way, if you look in the DMFLAGS2 list, there is a flag called "player is temporarily invulnerable when respawned." So why aren't crybaby server admins using that flag instead of kicking/banning players for doing it? Laughing


100% agree with this. If the dmflags for spawn protection aren't on, expect it. Otherwise, put them on your noob-ass server.


first, i'm not even sure this dmflag actually works, if it does, it makes a difference if you turn it on even if you have no spawn campers on the server, changes the gameplay a lot when you cant kill the other guy right away

i don't think this can be considered a tactical element, there are some maps and situations where this helps, but if you have a guy on a server who does just that, or for a considerable ammount of time, i think kicking him/her or banning if necesary is perfectly in order, public ctf is fucked up enough already without this sort of idiocy going on, wanna do it in private games, perfect ! you will find how useless you are, wanna do it on public and make it even more of a painful experience - expect to get a reaction
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DX-Chain
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All good points, although spawn camping in CTF actually does have a major tactical advantage. Say you control the SSG pedestal in Map01 or the main/lower area of Map08 of ZDCTF--it makes a huge difference because your flag carrier has an easier time getting out.

Trying to be generous and letting the other team spawn won't get you points or flags.

The DMFLAG actually works, although it isn't like in ST, where the player sprite blinks for a few seconds and bullet puffs come out instead of blood. On ZD, the sprite looks solid and blood splats come out, so it can fuck people's timing up a bit. Regardless, if people want to feel warm and fuzzy on public CTF and not have spawn camping, turn the flag on Mad.


Last edited by DX-Chain on Thu May 22, 2008 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neuro
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure spawn camping can piss you the fuck off, but if it's just one of many efficient techniques that get the job done, then it's fine.
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[SIN]Hatred
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spawn camping is part of the game. If you don't want to be a victim of said spawn camping, stop running to the same place over and over in the exact same fashion.
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Stealth
Gone with the wind


Joined: 09 Nov 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen the same argument about the BFG, which is 'a noob weapon' and gives you 'easy frags'. So what? I want it. It'll make me win. And of course the better ofus know there is a highly unique skill to controlling the BFG, used proably to it's greatest effect in d5m1 or map01.

As far as spawn camping goes, I'd apply the same rule: Don't give a shit. Courtesy never won the war. Spawn killing works really well on some maps, I'd know all about zdctfmp map01 as I end up being the fustrated victim, which leads me to train more on that map with Shotgun, and only usually picking up the SSG if the base is bloody empty, or I'm in the enemies empty base. Saves you health.
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ufon
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Joined: 25 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chaindude wrote:
All good points, although spawn camping in CTF actually does have a major tactical advantage. Say you control the SSG pedestal in Map01 or the main/lower area of Map08 of ZDCTF--it makes a huge difference because your flag carrier has an easier time getting out.


yes, this i would call tactical spawn camping, as i said it makes sense in certain situations and maps, but ive seen guys who do it all the time just to piss everyone off, that is certainly not what you are discribing here and thats where i would be in favour of kicking the guy out

a situation > zdctfmp1 - map04, you have a dude who is constantly running to the sedluded upper corner spawn and just stands there fragging everyone who happens to spawn there, all the time, its 5 on 5, i don't think his team benefits from his action, actually, i think he is helping the other team to get the better spawns, if i saw this on public where i have rcon, i would have a word with this guy


Last edited by ufon on Thu May 22, 2008 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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revstar
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Joined: 16 Jan 2007

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seeing as i'm not a server guy, from a purely player point of view:

i dont see spawn fragging as a big deal, its the same as getting continuously fragged elsewhere. i doubt a team could camp all spawns and hence not allow you to even move, so once you spawn elsewhere, go find the spawn camper and kill him.

fragging is always a problem in CTF. people forget "flags not frags" and whether you're spawn camping or just fragging in the middle of the map with no real purpose, then its pretty useless for your team.

howeve the right spawn frags at the right time can definitely help your team. an example from a recent 2v2 game on map04 (zdctfmp). my teammate grabbed the flag and the opponents already had the flag. i chased it down, and then stayed in their base continuously fragging the ex-flag carrier. it then gave my teammate to easily run back into our base (killing the other opponent once) and cap the flag.
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GhostlyDeath
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CTF is all about using cheap dirty tactics to win although it is annoying getting spawn killed 3 times in a row when I spawn in the same exact spot 3 or 4 times in a row.
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lippy
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Joined: 29 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spawn camping doesn't determine ones sexuality.

Last edited by lippy on Thu May 22, 2008 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Catoptromancy
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a bit annoying expecially in 8v8 or the 8v5 games.

Its still part of the game. Campers are easy to kill anyway.
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Xenaero
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Joined: 23 May 2003
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spawn camping is part of the game, much like wallrunning, chain-tapping (chaingun accuracy trick yo) and whatever else. Honestly, if you don't like it, then don't play in the server, or better yet, if you're a real warrior, find a way to counter it and then subsequently use it against your opponents. This game is built off of strategy. To have it used against you, and then you turning around and bitching about it is pretty low. That time used bitching could be better spent learning how to avoid, counter, and then use it against your opponents.

Take sr50 for example. People will complain about that, and yet the more experienced players will use it, because it grants an advantage. Is this a glitch? Is this a cheat? No, how could it be, if everyone could do it? Same goes for spawn camping. If it irks you, as a player, that much, then take the time to learn how to use it yourself. And no, not just learn how to use it. Learn how to use it better than the competition. That's how you learn, and that's how you win.

lippy wrote:
Spawn Camping doesn't determine ones sexuality.


This is the best post in the whole thread, just sayin'.
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Fsn76
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Joined: 11 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[SIN]Hatred wrote:
Spawn camping is part of the game. If you don't want to be a victim of said spawn camping, stop running to the same place over and over in the exact same fashion.


Same opinion.
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Fastidious
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it funny people say spawn camping makes them pissed off which is arguably one of the biggest advantages to it. If you can distract your opponent's thinking to the point where he gets mad you and forgets parts of the game that's a good thing. Psychological domination FTW.

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switcher
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Joined: 26 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya well... all's fair so they say.
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
We had the spawn protection debate a few years back during the big FFA era on ZD, actually had it turned on one of the big GSN servers of the day for a while, and it was determined that spawn protection was definitely ghey and fcuked up the game.
So yea, anything you can possibly do in this game to take any kind of advantage be it territorial or psychological you should be allowed to do without getting kicked by some noobass server admin.
And while we're on the subject of noobass server admins, can Kevin and I get unbanned from Doomed Earth servers some day? Very Happy
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DX-Chain
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

switcher wrote:
can Kevin and I get unbanned from Doomed Earth servers some day? Very Happy


Sure, tell him to stop using a [DX] tag and we got a deal Cool.
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dewww
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<Cacodemon> wrote:
some words i don't care about

although i really like your avatar, i would appreciate if you chose another one Evil or Very Mad
i have a whole set of gifs based on paul robertson's animations, so i can even provide you with something similarly themed
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