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Zdaemon vs Zdoom

 
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Joesomebody
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Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:48 am    Post subject: Zdaemon vs Zdoom Reply with quote

Okay let me first start off by saying i am NOT bashing zdaemon in any way here. I love zdaemon and it what got me started playing doom online. I recently downloaded the new version of zdoom and it runs so much smoother than zdaemon. Can we expect the new version of zdaemon to run smoother in 1.09? From what i've seen from the change log that its mostly just net changes and screenshots.
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Doomination
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Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Location: It's NOT lupus. Posts: 6.022 x 10^23

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think it's allowed to compare ZD to another port in the fora.
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EarthQuake
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Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio. Dieblieber gonna getcha!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside from a possible framerate multiplier in 1.10 (or possibly later), the physics and renderer will remain the same.
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Stealth
Gone with the wind


Joined: 09 Nov 2004

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe, what you are experiencing on the smoothness scale is simply uncapped fps. Basically ZDoom allows the framerate to hit any value, whilst ZDaemon is capped at 35 frames per second, similar to the original Doom. This has nothing to do with better coding or sorts, ZDaemon is a purely multiplayer port and it will stay that way. ZDoom is a good single player port, depending on whether or not you like the ZDoom features and engine.

If a lot of people want uncapped, it'd probably be better to meet their demands, however I will always keep the cap on, not only does uncapped make my eyes water, but I do notice the mouse movement sucks.

You shouldn't compare ZDoom to ZDaemon, as they exist for entirely different reasons. Skulltag and ZDaemon would be a better comparison. One is not better than the other, as they rather have different ideas on what makes a Doom multiplayer source port.
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lockwolf
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Joined: 04 Nov 2004
Location: Nakremy's Pants Posts: More than you

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Zdaemon vs Zdoom Reply with quote

Joesomebody wrote:
From what i've seen from the change log that its mostly just net changes and screenshots.


And these are bad things? Seriously, you should notice a lil more smoothness with an updated net code. Also, throw in everything StealthCP said here too.
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Skater
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Joined: 05 Jun 2002
Location: Philadelphia - The Cradle of Liberty

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doomination wrote:
I dont think it's allowed to compare ZD to another port in the fora.


That is correct. Ask my neighbor down aways.. But to be real, I believe that Zdaemon is based on Zdoom. Am I incorrect?
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Danni
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StealthCP wrote:
If a lot of people want uncapped, it'd probably be better to meet their demands, however I will always keep the cap on, not only does uncapped make my eyes water, but I do notice the mouse movement sucks.


Exactly why we won't uncap the FPS in zdaemon. View interpolation makes the mouse feel awful and breaks the natural feel of the game.
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Joesomebody
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Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

idk the mouse didn't feel awful playing zdoom online with my friend. and i never said the change log was bad
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Danni
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Joined: 25 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mouse feels awful. Period.
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Achtung
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Joined: 06 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mouse feels awful if you're used to ZDaemon. Period.
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Quiksilver
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Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Location: Portlandia, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concur. Using the mouse with an uncapped FPS like skulltag makes me feel like I'm playing one of those slow moving fps games, like halo, or counter strike. The "action" factor is low, BUUUTT however I just played Sapphire on GZDoom and I gotta say, heh, AMAZING graphics. I mean it looked like doom, and had the same stuff in it as doom, but it would pass as a low res quake 2.

Not to mention the beautifully done Spider Mastermind with dual chainguns and a BFG. heh.
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Kilgore
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Up the river

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Achtung wrote:
The mouse feels awful if you're used to ZDaemon. Period.
Yes and that's the "correct" feeling for zdaemon players. Don't even bother to argue that: it won't change. If you want a different mouse feeling, go to some doom ports that change the feeling whenever the developer feels like it.
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Quiksilver
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Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Location: Portlandia, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Lipps was saying mouse in ANY other port/game even, feels awful after you've been swingshotting all day.
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Achtung
On a Rampage!


Joined: 06 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilgore wrote:
Achtung wrote:
The mouse feels awful if you're used to ZDaemon. Period.
Yes and that's the "correct" feeling for zdaemon players. Don't even bother to argue that: it won't change. If you want a different mouse feeling, go to some doom ports that change the feeling whenever the developer feels like it.


I'm used to ZDaemon, so that won't be happening. :p

Just trying to make a point man, don't get grumpy.
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Body-Guard
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Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Location: Hungary

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUMP!

About uncapped FPS:

I don't see any reason why this can't be done; just have an option like skulltag does: to be able to turn it off and on.About the mouse "awfullness": you can get used to it.I played skulltag uncapped, and I have to admit, nothing horrible.Took 3 mins to get used to it.
The other thing is: I don't know what does "feels like those slow moving fps games" mean?If you are having uncapped, the skulltag engine compensates the speeds, so they will be exactly the same as the capped one.Oh, and I won't go to an another port, this answer makes no sense.
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Stealth
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Joined: 09 Nov 2004

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The developers wouldn't add in uncapped support until it feels exactly the same as the mouse movement that exists in capped mode. As thge games clock runz at 35Hz the truest feeling of the mouse will exist at 35fps. And even if we got it to feel the same, what is the benefit really? I find Skulltag hurts my eyes when uncapped, I always push it back to 35hz, even if I'm using OpenGL.

That's personal preference, and I can understand why some people would sacrifice mouse movement for higher framerate, which is why I ask why you don't use Skulltag instead? The same reason you are not using Chocolate Doom to play Doom online, if ZDaemon doesn't support the features you want then why use it?
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Body-Guard
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Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Location: Hungary

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StealthCP wrote:
if ZDaemon doesn't support the features you want then why use it?




You could ask hundreds of ppl here on the forums, the answer is easy:
we want Zdaemon to be BETTER.
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Danni
Dominating!


Joined: 25 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Body-Guard wrote:
BUMP!

About uncapped FPS:

I don't see any reason why this can't be done; just have an option like skulltag does: to be able to turn it off and on.


Uncapping the FPS using the same method as Skulltag and ZDoom breaks the response of the mouse period. The cap does not address this.

Quote:

About the mouse "awfullness": you can get used to it.I played skulltag uncapped, and I have to admit, nothing horrible.Took 3 mins to get used to it.


I can feel a BIG difference due to the view interpolation. It lags your response time. Sure you can get used to it, but it can't beat pin point precision.

Quote:

The other thing is: I don't know what does "feels like those slow moving fps games" mean?If you are having uncapped, the skulltag engine compensates the speeds, so they will be exactly the same as the capped one.Oh, and I won't go to an another port, this answer makes no sense.


It doesn't compensate anything, it delays everything for enough points to perform interpolation.
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Body-Guard
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Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Location: Hungary

PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K, You are the coder, I won't argue about this.I am sure you have the reasons why not to implement it.
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