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Has ZDaemon become less interesting?
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[SIN]Hatred
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Joined: 21 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:06 am    Post subject: Has ZDaemon become less interesting? Reply with quote

The question that always seems to plague the minds of its most loyal followers: is ZDaemon dying? Is it in its last stages of life? From an outside perspective, one may nod his head in the direction of yes, however, when taking a closer look, some strains of life still seem to exist in the competitive realms and leagues. Unfortuntely, some of these top-tier leagues are also suffering the same fate and seem to be going through a rough stretch as well. ZDDL mirrors this perfectly right now as an example.

When the ZDDL was first introduced to the community, many sparks of interest burned up and even some inactive players from long ago caught an open gaze to it and found interest. However--perhaps with timing among other things--the ZDDL is becoming more and more inactive by the day. The time it was selected to take place on may have served as a factor into its seemingly downward spiral. During this time, many people have returned back to their schools--college and high school alike--and have lost some time there. Full-time workers are usually plagued by this during the whole year, but summer-time tends to serve as a refreshing reminder to why they enjoy this game. When the usual players carry on with their lives in busy times, the ones who are already busy seem to lose interest when they see friends become inactive.

Of course, this question seems to always find its way in the mainstream thoughts of the community. Thus, which leads me to my next question, what can be done about it? Perhaps there are multipule solutions, or perhaps ZDaemon has begun its inebitable set of the sun. Some ideas that come to mind that may serve as solutions are usually cheap and pointless. Many tend to suggest changing rules and making things less strict. Others tend to blame the current version and their lack of patience for the next ones arrival and usually acts as a nail in the coffin to their time spent here. Even more are completely in awe to the amounts of cheating that goes on in this game.

With that said, some things I believe should be addressed. As I've slowly found myself becoming detatched from this game, I've realized how petty some of these rules are around here (no offense to the Staff, but it is very true). Although I can appreciate the goals of not exposing young children to explicit things, I can't, however, tolerate this being used as a tool of control. Think about it, why must people be scrutinized for publically disagreeing with a staff member? I can understand if this said person is being blatantly disrespectful and harassing a member of the staff, but I can't when he's simply trying to give suggestions. I know its usually a PR thing, but let's be honest here, this is the internet. Even further along those lines, this community is not the size of Jupiter, so I think being a bit more lienant isn't as challenging of a task as its made out to be.

Along the lines of developement, people must understand that patience is indeed a virtue here. One staff member in paticular, has always been very humble about answering questions about the new version and its upcoming release. Some, however, can unfortunetly become very hostile when the subject is brought up. The cheating issue goes hand-in-hand with this as its always a top priority to solve in every new release. People of the community must understand this and be more understanding. But as mentioned above, I believe if all staff members could apply confident, non-hostile answers to this subject, I think some patience levels would improve.

A burden must also be placed on the members of this community as anything in life is always a two-way street. Although this is only the internet, members of the community must stop being so petty, dumb--and in lamest terms--immature about how they handle things. Although a good joke can serve as some comedic relief in some instances and perhaps lighten the atmosphere up, sometimes its taken too far--everyone is guilty of this. There becomes a time when certain people must understand that this is only a game and making it their personal vandettas to harass, belittle and mud-sling someones name in the dirt not only makes them look like a low-life, anti-social prick, but it also does severe damage on the community from a welcoming-like atomsphere as well--nobody wants to feel unwanted.

Poignant once told me something that still sticks with me to this day. "We all play the same game and have the same goal in mind: a fun game." There's no need to be so idiotic about things like this. Enjoy the game and ignore those people you find to be "intolerable." I'm not begging for a community holding hands under a rainbow, I'm simply stating that people could be less pre-teen-like about things around here.

This post was not made to point anyone out in particular. It was just a mere general observation of what my eyes have seen as of late. Although my activity has seen a significant decrease, I still do wish to see this community thrive and continue to move forward. This, I guess, is a last ditch effort to try and open up some minds here and perhaps make this a better, more welcoming place for new and old players alike. If this post can even open the eyes of one person, I'd feel good about it. If nothing changes and even people try to flame this post, I can always hold my head up high with a smile on my face saying "at least I tried." A community is only as good as the amount of members it has. If things continue on, its only a matter of time before the amount of members begins to plummet. So please, keep these things in mind and try to realize what this is. I wish everyone the best regardless and I will continue to keep in contact with friends and others in this community. Cheers!
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dewww
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wonderful thoughts. they should be put on zdaemon's gravestone, when it dies. although the stone would need to be quite big. or the letters small. now give me back the time i wasted on reading this. i mean- calling for friendlier mods, more responsible users, better and faster played competitions... how noble, how futile, how imdb petition like :)
now i feel guilty for flaming a perfect world peace speech. i also feel stupid for trying to click the 'this is the internet' part.
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Nakremy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

College is a bore when my mind is constantly plagued with wonderful passed thoughts about enjoying a fun classical CTF game with my clan (WOLF).

Times have changed. For the better, I must finish this "college". Although to my current beliefs (in gnostiscism) I do not believe in "work". But I must bear with it until the very end (sadly).

My last CTF was played like a month ago. I feel as if I am slowly detaching myself from ZDAEMON. This is widely because if I were to organize clan matches with my clansmen, I would probably not make it. Even If I did, I would be wasting valuable time (and wasteful effort imo) instead of working on college. I miss DooM but not as much as before. I must admit that I have been playing Starcraft with some members more and more from time to time (Because I don't need all my clan members to organize a match and it is least bothersom in my works, plus I can't wait for SC2, might as well train those melee skills Wink ).

Well as a mind of spirit. I do not believe Zdaemon will die before I die.
Good Luck.
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TheMionicDonut
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent point Hatred, here is my response to this.
I notice a large chunk of the doom community (myself included) began college this term. I personally made new friends, and there is all the homework stuff as well, I don't seem to have as much time for this, though it is still held dear to me.

Could this separation be because the latest generation of college students became computer literate right about the time Doom 2 came onto our screens. Is it relevant, I dunno. Thats why I am putting it on what appears to be one of the more philosophical threads (which will probably wind up getting gunked up anyway)


Last edited by TheMionicDonut on Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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GhoulSlayeR
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I somewhat agree with this.

People can be Idiots and take shit to the extreme. I think we all seen this atleast once. Many threads on the forum can be perfect examples. I found that solving problems\issues in pm on IRC is alot easier than the forum by a LARGE amount so I stress that people should do so more often. But I do agree, the clanwar section is a tad bit over modded. Sometimes it is good to have a goodie-goodie clanwar, but were shit is flung from both sides has the be the funnest ones. I guess more excitement, fun, rush, ect.

I cannot stand the Zhero's, They get on my nerves............"Lets all be friends and sing little gay songs about rainbows and friendship!". Shit talk brings balence to the game when it is not Taken to the Extreme . It adds excitment to the game I feel, and shouldn't be taken seriously. I mean shit, we even got a Dr. Phil in the community hahaha, "what did he call you and how did it make you feel?" Come on and grow up, It is just a fucking game people Wink

Anyways about Moderation, I think it is fine the way it is. I never had any incidents were I got banned or chewed out cept once, "ruining CTF". I suppose just not typing certain words in #zdplayers is a whole lot of trouble to do for some people.

I did see a slow down in the ZDDL, perhaps your right, School has been raping my play time on the large scale lately.

What I really hate to see is what is being played currently. Most of the it is d5m1, Brit10, and zdctfmp1,2,3. We even got some servers JUST hosting 5 maps out of zdctf. I got bored of zdctf so long ago I can't barely stand to play it anymore. I usually go on Auto Pilot mode were I just play like a zombie Laughing I always believed in this saying: The best players will always play any gamemode and settings and still do well!

Clan scene has taken a massive shit and died. People just don't want to play eachother, and I hate to say it, but most likely they are afraid to lose.
Sad yet so so true Rolling Eyes

I could care less when the new release will come out honestly. I also talked to the devolpment team time to time and they never got mad when I asked about new features and shit. Hell, even kilgore explained alot of it and pulled up examples and educated me on it than I ever thought I would know. Kilgore, along with the rest of the dev team are pretty kickass from my point of view.

Hacking issues? Please, when is the last time someone got banned for "hacking". That is just an excuse on their part.

The Zdaemon community got bigger with more players and servers (servers with the same old shit.), But the older players are going/gone away and newer people to DooM itself are comming in. It prolly seems that the community is dieing because people who we once played with alot are gone without any replacements.

That is my view on it ...
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Nakremy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw,

Quote:

[Sin]Hatred wrote,
If nothing changes and even people try to flame this post, I can always hold my head up high with a smile on my face saying "at least I tried."


And you're try has worked.
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Admiral-Shakal
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's at times like these that I like to thank people like Ralphis, Jkist3 and many others for trying to stir up some real activity back in ZDaemon.
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Cybershark
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GhoulSlayeR wrote:
What I really hate to see is what is being played currently. Most of the it is d5m1, Brit10, and zdctfmp1,2,3. We even got some servers JUST hosting 5 maps out of zdctf. I got bored of zdctf so long ago I can't barely stand to play it anymore.

think you all know this goes for me too. it's the general lack of variety if anything that is killing ZD for me.

things are never gonna be as great as 'back in the good ol' days' but the community is surely not getting any smaller. Donut has a lot of it nailed with the thing about so many people of a similar age all suddenly taking a hike to college but it doesn't mean there's less cool people out there. go find some new buddies/clanmates/arch-nemeses today!
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Ronald
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cybershark wrote:
GhoulSlayeR wrote:
What I really hate to see is what is being played currently. Most of the it is d5m1, Brit10, and zdctfmp1,2,3. We even got some servers JUST hosting 5 maps out of zdctf. I got bored of zdctf so long ago I can't barely stand to play it anymore.

think you all know this goes for me too. it's the general lack of variety if anything that is killing ZD for me.


Yeah, same goes for me here. I do play some ZDCTFMP sometimes, but only 1 or 2 games because I am rather bored of it. Like Ghoulslayer also said, people are afraid to lose, so they minimize the chance they lose by playing maps they know.
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Metalhead
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZDaemon has become a bit dull within the past few months. After IDL was finished with, it seems like everyone went their own way after that. ZDDL started up, some people came back and things were getting interesting, then the rednexus site went down and everything went down hill from there.

I don't think ZDaemon is becoming less interesting, I just believe, as you said Hatred, People have work, school...Life in a nutshell. And ZDaemon isn't everyones number 1 priority anymore Razz.

As for the drama, that stems from the ego's and competition in some people here. There's no problem with competition, it's when people get cocky about it. This is what makes the game not fun.

As for CTF, it has come to the point where people who aren't too involved with the community have had to make private servers in order to get out of the way of public CTF, which has become a nuisance of it's own. DUI servers for example...I used to play in the DUI servers all the time when the DUI members were around, there weren't so many problems...I don't mind 8 vs 8 ctf, it's all fun. But now it's either someone aimbotting, someone accusing you of aimbotting, or people who don't know the difference between red and blue or how to count.

That's my 2 cents.
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vapid
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, after reading all that garbage I'm less interested in it already.
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HumanBones
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm so glad you're using paragraphs now, Hatred Razz.

I wouldn't say ZDaemon is dying. Even with work and school and all that, people from different timezones still find time to play.

Less interesting? Maybe. It's certainly become less interesting to me, (and I know saying this over the internet makes people Rolling Eyes and LOL), because for the past two years I've actually had a life.

I still enjoy a game now and then, but mostly I just come on and talk. It's partly because I don't want to play. The other reason is that now I have carpal tunnel and some eye issues that keep me from playing frequently.

Honestly though? We've all complained about #zdplayers and how its "ruining the game and making less people play Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation ". But would ZDaemon be as "alive" as it is right now, without #zdplayers? A channel that unites the entire community? I don't think it would be.

So, no, I don't think ZDaemon is dying. In fact, I think it's more popular than it's been in years Very Happy. Poignant always has the right thing to say. We're all here about this one game. This has been an active community for over five years now, and I wouldn't be surprised if it lasted another ten.
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ccarnage
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zdaemon became less interesting when there was an efflux of players that used old school options and an influx of mouselook/jump players. Rolling Eyes

Zdaemon definitely isn't dieing. However the popularity of CTF and usage of mouselook/jump will ensure that in the near future Zdaemon will be completely unrecognizable compared to its origins as a port of Doom.
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Gamma
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow i can't believe i read that much. There goes my reading for the month, i give u an A+ hatred Very Happy.

Anyway i've also been thinking of quitting this game cuz of school, getting banned for saying something i didnt know was a "banned word" Embarassed , but I still am playing the game becuz it's fun and well... kinda addicting Razz . I do hope to see this comunity expand more and for ZDaemon to not die.
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Serp_i_Molot
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just out of curiousity, has anyone made an attempt to recruit people to join ZD? If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. People will be leaving the community all the time due to real life issues. Hell, I had to leave for a while, and I might do so again if real life interferes.

Thus, by simple mathematics, to keep the community alive, more people need to be introduced to zd than the amount who leave. And when the newbie players show up, we should be welcoming and try to help them become better; otherwise, they will leave too.

Seriously people, we all have friends in real life. Would it not be cool if those same people were our friends in zd?
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[tp]UltraSoft
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, ZDaemon has been going downhill since the loss of GSN #03 and that OMGMAPS server.
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soncdoommario
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I see myself leaving in the immediate future.

Sure, I've showed brief periods of absences from here, but I always try to keep up to date. I still come here for a CTF game if it is loaded, or I will try to spark the L@P Dwango5 server, or any other WAD I'm in the mood to play.

Here's to saying the next version of Zdaemon will bring everyone's hopes up again. I realize it's been in development for nearly two years, but hey, the longer we wait, the better.
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[SIN]Hatred
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GhoulSlayeR wrote:
I cannot stand the Zhero's, They get on my nerves............"Lets all be friends and sing little gay songs about rainbows and friendship!". Shit talk brings balence to the game when it is not Taken to the Extreme . It adds excitment to the game I feel, and shouldn't be taken seriously. I mean shit, we even got a Dr. Phil in the community hahaha, "what did he call you and how did it make you feel?" Come on and grow up, It is just a fucking game people Wink


Although I can share the same passion you have for having an extreme dis-taste for people who dedicate their lives to making this a community where we all love each other and give everyon hugs, I still have to place a large emphasis on the point of things being Taken To The Extreme. Regular, harmless shit-talk, in my opinion, is not neccesarrily a bad thing. I agree that some of it developes rivalrys between certain clans or people, and as mentioned, that does bring some interest and life to the community. That being said, too many people make their choice of antaginizing words more of a personal attack rather than an on-the-field remark. That's the point I'm trying to make.

GhoulSlayeR wrote:
Anyways about Moderation, I think it is fine the way it is. I never had any incidents were I got banned or chewed out cept once, "ruining CTF". I suppose just not typing certain words in #zdplayers is a whole lot of trouble to do for some people.


Perhaps my statements about the moderation in #zdplayers are a bit over the top, but I can't help but feel like some of it is a bit petty rather than useful. But then again, everything is in place for a reason, and one must respect that. However, some things can be a bit extreme in some instances, and I do feel a more lienant approach could attract more people.

GhoulSlayeR wrote:
What I really hate to see is what is being played currently. Most of the it is d5m1, Brit10, and zdctfmp1,2,3. We even got some servers JUST hosting 5 maps out of zdctf. I got bored of zdctf so long ago I can't barely stand to play it anymore. I usually go on Auto Pilot mode were I just play like a zombie Laughing I always believed in this saying: The best players will always play any gamemode and settings and still do well!


You're right. The variety of maps being played is truly scarce. Although classics should always be held up, people still need to make it priority to try new things and find enjoyment in them. This places a responsibilty on both server admins and the players. Server admins must host different wads and people must play them. Perhaps if all server admins took out wads like Dwango5, Brit11, Brit10, ZDCtfmp1, 2 and 3, and among others for just one week, maybe other maps would see more action. Razz

GhoulSlayeR wrote:
I could care less when the new release will come out honestly. I also talked to the devolpment team time to time and they never got mad when I asked about new features and shit. Hell, even kilgore explained alot of it and pulled up examples and educated me on it than I ever thought I would know. Kilgore, along with the rest of the dev team are pretty kickass from my point of view.


Maybe it doesn't matter to you when the new version is released, but I think it does matter to some--making it a notable issue. I don't place this burden on the staff, but the community rather because the staff can only do what is best for the release. Things take time and people must understand that. However, you must admit, there are some who react with hostility rather than a helpful attitude when being asked certain questions about the new release. I won't name anyone because I don't want to turn this into a flamming contest. I'm simply giving a general constructive criticism in hopes of helping.

GhoulSlayeR wrote:
Hacking issues? Please, when is the last time someone got banned for "hacking". That is just an excuse on their part.


You would be suprised how often people are banned for cheating. It may not be an everyday thing where you see some big name being put down, but a combination of newer players attempt to play with the things. But, from what I've seen, the cheating scene has seemed to taken a sudden fall. It still, however, is a considerable thing to mention regardless and should never be taken lightly.

GhoulSlayeR wrote:
The Zdaemon community got bigger with more players and servers (servers with the same old shit.), But the older players are going/gone away and newer people to DooM itself are comming in. It prolly seems that the community is dieing because people who we once played with alot are gone without any replacements.


This may be true. I have been a bit inactive for the last month or so, but whenever I try to play a game, hardly anyone is ever playing in any servers. I've been around at 5 at night, or even 12 in the afternoon and never seem to find any action. Perhaps its just bad timing.

GhoulSlayeR wrote:
That is my view on it ...


I appreciate it that you took the time to write this extensive post out. It has opened my eyes up, too, to some of the opposite points I've made. Thanks again for the input.
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DEATHBR1NGER
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some simple explaination in my point of view.

Doom is an old game. The generation that did play it is growing older. People these days want more modern games such as Halo. Also, those newbies won't have a Doom2.wad or any such pwad. Do you think they would buy it? They would rather spend money on something else then this that is many years old.

The biggest one is that Zdaemon has some tough competitors. Skulltag for example, is the most advanced online port there is almost emulating all features of GZDoom. Zdaemon also hasn't been updated for quite a while driving *some* players away. Although the gameplay here in my opinion, is the one of the best, it's just grown old.

The newbies who probably downloaded the wad illegally, are just present no challenge. Big clans not to be named love to alias for some reason to screw around. Organized leagues like the ZDDL or IDL are a little much. For me, I just play this for fun. I've got many other options in my Xbox 360, but I still continue to play doom.

I could partly blame people like me who are assholes to most newbies. My binds like "Press Alt-F4 for the BFG!!" or offensive jestures in CTF might make some people quit the game Confused

I just hope the next version of Zdaemon comes soon and blows me away. Otherwise, I'll just go play some other ports full time Sad
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DemonChildXP
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think about this... Look over to your left... How many join dates do you see that say 2002, 2003, or hell even 2004.... Not a WHOLE lot... Most of those people have left and moved on... Players always come and go.... I don't see this port going anywhere, anytime soon..
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