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New DM level released ! O' Skual
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MR.ROCKET
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Joined: 29 Mar 2004

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:07 am    Post subject: New DM level released ! O' Skual Reply with quote

Hey hows it going Wink

I'v released a New Old Skool style DM level for everyone to enjoy !
More info can be found here:
http://home.comcast.net/~mrrocket/main.htm

Let me know what you think.
If you feel up to reviewing it, you can do that too. Razz
Have fun! Wink
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runkman
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Joined: 23 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm gonna try that later Razz Doesn't look so bad at all.
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spacepirate
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Joined: 25 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks nice! Haven't saw such nice looking map for a while. Soon will play it.
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Alfred
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Joined: 25 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This map bores the hell out of me. Its not 94 anymore, get with the times, we can do so much more now. Push the limits just a tad, its fun and creates fun things...

I see nothing new in this map, the gameplay has been done, the style has been killed buried and shat upon, even the music has been used numorous times.

And I realize you were going for the 'oldskewl style' but, I'm personally sick of it, seen it way too much, and tired of the same old crud all of the time. Its just boring, if there weren't any random detail (crates, random shapes in the floor) and it were replaced with some nice thematic detail, I'd be happier, but still, this theme has been done to death.

Crates = bad.
Random, useless, unthematic detail = bad.
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Stealth
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Joined: 09 Nov 2004

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the factor that matters most is gameplay, so I set up a ZDReview server, hosting this wad. Hope someone enjoys it Razz I've set it up as a 1on1 (you mention "small 2 player DM layout" on your website") with L@Ps newschool settings, something which I find quite standard. Want this changed buddy just ask.

My first opinions on the map are that it is quite sparse, lacking in detail, and is hard to form good strategies for, making this a noob friendly map. However, there are some nice details here and there and overall the map is well shaped. The standard colours are a bit draining, especially the outside mix of green and brown - even a small lake would breathe a lot more into the level. There is a good bit of room for improvement, though not much to take this map up to an acceptable level. It's perfectly ok, but bear in mind when you are making maps to think of playability, and consider this as you are making every single change to the map. By looking good you may be sacrificing gameplay.
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MR.ROCKET
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow thanks Alfred lol but, been there done that some odd 5 years ago, it's time to move on buddy, you know, have some fun?
No I don't want to take the classic feel out of it, sorry. Wink
You tell me what kind of replay value your looking for, and I'll tell you what type of Deathmatch levels have been played more than any others in Doom2. Wink Because lately that's all i'v seen is something new, something different and in most cases they don't get played much, they will get a wow and a delete. That and right now I just dont have the time to make another one of these

and it not get played heh.

The wow factor of my O' Skual level isn't actually an amount of detail, or what effects it could have, it's about the game play and fun factor.
Hey cool thanks for hosting it up Stealth, I'm hopeing players will like it also. Wink
And it's not like I can't update it if need be, and details don't take much time for me. But yeah the way it's setup there's not much room for detail, and as a matter a fact, I was going to put a little mud puddle out there, but really the more I played it, the more I tested it, the less things like that were needed. Besides, once you have 100 dead players in it, you have all the detail it needs. Very Happy
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Cybershark
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that seemed unduly harsh Alfrere.
i wouldn't call it an oldskool looking map as it's quite vertical, also it looks less bland than a lot of the stuff you've released Wink
it's only the MIDI that's stale here i think Razz

overall i quite like it. although the flow seems a little off, there's another corridor i think i'd have added in.

GJ with the hosting Stealth! Smile
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shinobi-cl
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Joined: 31 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm. didn't like the looks of it at all... Maybe some custom textures would make a difference.
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Op-Cow
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Joined: 19 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the outdoor area is a little hard on the eyes as stated. Perhaps a flatter green texture? Or maybe more greens and less brown (or vise/versa). As for indoors, myself, I don't like when the brown96, browngrn, etc,. textures tile vertically. Try making an over hang or something to break up the tileing or try a different texture.
Gameplay wise seems a little simple at this point. Almost a simple loop.
Not bad tho, and not far to go, I'd just take some of the other folks suggestions and run with it.

Op-Cow
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MR.ROCKET
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Custom textues..

rofl..

I don't like when the brown96, browngrn, etc,. textures tile vertically..

lol..

I get the feeling half the people here don't even play the maps, they just look at them. - at that, probably have never played a Dwango or Dweller map in their life. Very Happy

Again the map isn't about eye candy, it's about game play.
The feedback I'm looking for here is about playtest, gameplay, that's it nothing more lol.

Am I making myself clear? lol
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Alfred
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Joined: 25 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MR.ROCKET wrote:
I get the feeling half the people here don't even play the maps, they just look at them. - at that, probably have never played a Dwango or Dweller map in their life.


You do understand that the reason people are bored of this and why people bitch about it is that they have played that same bullcrap for the past 3 maybe 4 years? lol.

You can go about it however you wanna, its cool, doesn't really matter in any way. Its just, when you go about playing something its hard to keep interest when everything looks the same. Additionally, instead of fighting out criticisms, take into account why we say these things rather than having it explained to you...

Same old boring textures=same old boring feel=bored people=bad

Do I make myself clear? hehe
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Serp_i_Molot
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MR.ROCKET wrote:
Again the map isn't about eye candy, it's about game play.
The feedback I'm looking for here is about playtest, gameplay, that's it nothing more lol.

Dude, I tried the same 'gameplay' approach, but it did not work for me... learn from my mistakes. People tend to judge most maps based on how they look... although gameplay is important too. So, what you should do is keep doing what you are doing, mainly making maps focused on gameplay. (don't post it in the forums, though, since ppl will just bitch about graphics) Playtest the map with your friends or ppl you trust to give an honest opinion. Then, when you have tweaked the gameplay to suit you, go back into the map and try to make it look nice. THEN, post it on the forums and ask what people think; otherwise, they will complain about the first thing that comes to mind: the graphics.
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Op-Cow
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scroll up, we've all left gameplay advice. It's simple, little room for strategy, and doesn't offer anything new. If its "gameplay" you're after then the posted opinions probably shouldn't contain the above complaints. We've ALL played dwango and dweller to death so you're going to have to offer more. And I don't see any reason why "oldskool"tm(c) fans would want to play this over d5m1. Go back and look at what makes those maps so long lived, and then look at yours and see whats missing. We all say this map has potential, it just needs some tweaking (and yes, a new corridor or turnaround would help).
It's also bad form to turn around and imply people are n00bs when you get advice you don't like in the REVIEW forum. No one posting here is anywhere near "n00b" status... And yes... we've all been playing these maps for yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrsssssssss.
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MR.ROCKET
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well now I know what it takes to get the blood boiling enough to get some actual feedback, yet I still haven't got anyone saying they played the wad lol.

@Alfred, I take things into consideration but that doesn't mean I'm always going to use it. Also, 3 or 4 years? geez man I'v been playing the same bullcrap for about 11 or 12 years and actually stopped playing these old classics about 5 years ago. You see, I'm sort of an old guy and have been playing Doom deathmatch since the BBS days, before any sourceport was heard of, there was a local BBS here in Indy called Megasphere, it even had a spiffy ladder system something like the Dwango BBS. I actually like the look of the original textures, and someone telling me that they are the same old textures, just tells me they want the game to look different. well if I used some different textures, it wouldn't look much like an old map now would it? Very Happy I want the map to look like Doom, are you hearing me? Very Happy

@Serp_i_Molot, Yeah I see what you mean, I guess it wouldn't matter how many times I said something, it would just get over looked unless it had a spin dial in it that everyone could play with lol.
So yeah I guess it wasn't a good idea to post on the forum for feedback, but at least it's mix opinions about it so far. Thanks for the positive feedback man. Wink I was also thinking of posting the download in one of the clan topics, which a new, playable map could be useful for a tourney sometime, when there's not really any stone written strategy picked up in it yet.

@Op-Cow, I know where your coming from in some aspects but I don't really need to scroll up or look back, as said, hey man I'v been there, I know what made the levels so good, because those were some of the first levels to actually get played full stride back when Doom was the big thing. They were and still are good levels, mainly because of the way they flow, and more importantly most players already know the map layout as well as it's do's and don'ts they have. The original Doom texture theme isn't going to change in this map, but I'll consider adding another corridor area in it. Though, some other things you said, about the flow, and offering something new, well tell me this, does every map have to have something new in it to be something new? it's new to me, I never played it, until I made it, granted, it is simple which is always a plus, a complicated DM level wont go to good heh. I built it around the way it flows. And it's actually a pretty well balanced level. But you'l never know that unless you actually play it. Very Happy
Also, no one said anything about playing this map over some other map, where do you get that?, as well as, noob status, lol I like that, but where did that come from? I suggest you rethinking your words a little bit youu lolz. - no I'm not attacking you or whatever lol, but other readers might think I'm pointing fingers, which I'm not.
Never the less, I'm starting to like the idea about another little side corridor area, maybe dug into the cliff side, opposite of the bfg switch side of the map.
Anyways, thanks for the opinion on some things. Wink But yeah I need some real gameplay feedback, is what I'm looking for.

Don't get me wrong, I could make some little partial transparent hi-res png weeds growing on the cliff sides, maybe even turn them into sprites and animate them, make them look like the wind is blowing Very Happy but that would totally defeat the purpose heh.
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Cybershark
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alfred, again, many of the works you've released - despite having custom textures and sprites - still manage to look dull.
Spacepirate is the king of "OMG IT NEEDZ MORE DETAILZ!" and even he said it looks nice! (btw Space, i roffled when i read someone else say that back to you in that 32in24 thread Razz )

Alfred wrote:
You do understand that the reason people are bored of this and why people bitch about it is that they have played that same bullcrap for the past 3 maybe 4 years? lol.

if only it were that simple. fact is that a great many people are still addicted to MAP01 and DW5 after all these years. in fact just try to name me an even semi-recognised duel map which uses custom textures! TLSD2004 maybe...

yes Cow, you did give a little snippet on gameplay but it's all been overshadowed by the looks so far and i just don't get where this is all coming from and why now?
FFS look the map i've got in the tourneys this month. it's totally custom-free and has anyone commented on that? many say the gameplay outright sucks but that's another story... Razz

Op-Cow wrote:
And I don't see any reason why "oldskool"tm(c) fans would want to play this over d5m1.

well they wouldn't. they play what they know, safe in the knowledge that no modern map could be better.

Op-Cow wrote:
No one posting here is anywhere near "n00b" status... And yes... we've all been playing these maps for yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrsssssssss.

you all just decided to start sounding like noobish Cybercrime fans just for this thread then? Laughing

i've still not played it but the one place that i will agree the texturing sucks is on the rocky steps. yes it looks natural and Doomish but as they're not even all the way up then you can occasionally find yourself hitting a ledge that's too high to climb because there's just no contrast there.
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BAZOOKA
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Joined: 10 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the map is good even for a tournament. Some areas are big for my taste but for a FFA they can be good. It uses default doom2 textures ¿and?. Personally i would have used other Doom 2 textures.
Oh and WB Smile
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MR.ROCKET
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey BAZOOKA Wink, glad you like it. Feel free to slap it in a tourney sometime. I figure it can be useful for something like that, and most DM'ers should like it because it's not something to different, and it's not over done, so there will less distractions an such.

Quote:
i've still not played it but the one place that i will agree the texturing sucks is on the rocky steps. yes it looks natural and Doomish but as they're not even all the way up then you can occasionally find yourself hitting a ledge that's too high to climb because there's just no contrast there.


@Cybershark, Yeah I had deathtag in mind when I made those, I purposely put the ledge cut-out with the health potions there, that's actually meant to be a little hiding spot Very Happy, I know what you mean about the steps, I was going to add little 8 unit white stone steps on top of them, which would have left a little visual path up to the top. Things like that wouldn't brake a playtest though so that can be another little update I can do to it along with the other corridor. Wink
Without further ado, you guys really should play this sucker, IT ROCKS !
heh Very Happy

@general feedback
I'll add some tweaks soon also. Wink
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Cybershark
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blargh, i played it last night. it was hard work at first with all that size but we got into it.

those indoor pillars are a bit of a pain. there's no real reason to go behind them and not enough room to manoeuvre when you're there. idk.

what i originally thought would be good was to knock a passage through behind one of the pillars which'd come out at the base of the rock steps (and involve making a break in the ledge leading to the armour) but it'd add too much flow to such a spacious map. for 2 players at least as it's already quite vast for duels.

there's a couple of slimey bits in the nodebuild, most glaring is looking over towards the teleport to the plasma, that one's really offputting.

all in all while it may be OS looking i think freelookers are gonna get the most out of this one.
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MR.ROCKET
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah there isn't much importance in the indoor pillars, well other than an obstacle to hide behind and some small health and armor items behind them lol, so in other words they are useful, but not a good place to hang out heh. Look at it this way, how often would you hang out in the room with the pillars in say D5M1, hardly ever, but there are items there so there is a reason behind that.

Speaking of D5M1, the size of the map is actually smaller than D5M1, I don't know what size map you guys are basing off of though. It's actually a pretty small map.

You were saying something about a node build, which isn't something I like to hear about heh, If you could fix up a screenshot, that would be great and I'll look at the area(s). Most cases it's just a matter of moving some linedefs and running another build, but visually I'm not seeing any build issues.

It's not a free look map, I never use freelook heh.
Though I suppose if one was to just go to the highest point in the map and just stand there and look around without anything going on?
But other than that (you shouldn't need to use freelook at all).

There is some skill factors involved you know. Wink
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Cybershark
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MR.ROCKET wrote:
Speaking of D5M1, the size of the map is actually smaller than D5M1, I don't know what size map you guys are basing off of though. It's actually a pretty small map.

heh, well i don't play that piece of shit Razz
i don't think that it's that i've just gotten too used to my own damn maps, i think it's just because you have some very wide areas and high ceilings in there.

MR.ROCKET wrote:
You were saying something about a node build, which isn't something I like to hear about heh, If you could fix up a screenshot, that would be great and I'll look at the area(s). Most cases it's just a matter of moving some linedefs and running another build, but visually I'm not seeing any build issues.

shouldn't need a screenie for this one, it's not exactly subtle Wink
just look across from the floor below the plasma to the plasma teleport, wiggle around a bit from left to right maybe. don't see how you can miss that glitch. and yeah it will just be a case of shifting a vertex or two around.

MR.ROCKET wrote:
It's not a free look map, I never use freelook heh.
Though I suppose if one was to just go to the highest point in the map and just stand there and look around without anything going on?
But other than that (you shouldn't need to use freelook at all).

There is some skill factors involved you know. Wink

i don't use it but that doesn't mean i can't see where it could be advantageous. for example, say somebody opens the door to the BFG teleport, you have a rocket already waiting for them when they come thru the door Twisted Evil
and i hope that skill comment wasn't directed at the freelookers... because everyone knows it clearly takes more skill to use autoaim than it does to target something across two axes OLOL!
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