Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Location: England - http://www.limpgimps.co.uk/
Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 12:44 pm Post subject: Tournament Rankings
Vamp sent me a document about rankings in tennis tournaments with an idea to impliment them here, these rankings will help to determine who the overall best regular 1 on 1 tournament players are as well as aid in seeding for the Pro tourneys, obviously there are a lot of great players out there that don't play tournaments often, or just enter the Pro, these would be seeded in the usual way.
Anyway, how it works is this, for an Open tourney win you earn 15 points, second place you earn 5. For the Pro tourney, a win gets you 50 points, second place 25. Int hasn't been included.
Here are the points so far, info has been taken from tournaments from April 2004 - April 2005, May tournament points will be added when they are complete.
Sedlo - 75 points - 1 win and 1 x 2nd place in Pro tourneys.
Psy-mushroom - 60 points - 1 win in the pro, 1 x SF in Pro.
VampireKnight[NK] - 52 points - 2 wins & 2 x 2nd places in Open, 1 x SF in Pro & 1 x SF in open.
Ultrakill[NK] - 45 points - 3 wins in the Open tourneys.
Isus in Black - 42 points - 2 x 2nd in open & 1 x 2nd place in pro & 1 x SF in open.
Obituary[NK] - 32 points - 2 wins in the open, 1 x SF in open.
LG_enVision - 20 points - 1 win and 1 x 2nd place in the open.
erik[NS] - 15 points - 1 x 2nd place in the open, 1 SF in pro.
Radster[Dx] - 15 points - 1 win in the open.
BeRaN - 15 points - 1 win in open.
Titan_66 - 10 points - SF in pro.
Autechre - 7 points - 1 x 2nd place in the open, 1 x SF in open.
Amtiskaw - 6 points - 3 x SF in open.
[dp]Mephisto - 5 points - 1 x 2nd place in the open.
Cartman - 5 points - 1 x 2nd place in the open.
Mazter_[LeD] - 5 points - 1 x 2nd place in the open.
Bazooka - 4 points - 2 x SF in open.
Subking - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
LG_Heretic - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
deathstar - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
GarryZZ - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
Xsnake - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
[dp]malvado - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
Mr_Twister - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
Hotman - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
Tennie[NK] - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
Enjoy
Last edited by Samiam on Fri May 20, 2005 7:47 am; edited 2 times in total
Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Location: England - http://www.limpgimps.co.uk/
Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 1:01 pm Post subject:
I thought I may as well add them for CTF too as these will be regular events, as well as team tourneys... this shows how well the captains and teams work together.
CTF - 50 for a win, 25 for 2nd place.
Team DM - 15 for a win, 5 for 2nd place.
These tournaments will be seeded one day now the teams are getting pretty much regular teams.
So far-
BH - 50 points - 1 win in CTF
66 - 25 points - 1 x 2nd place in CTF
Pre - 15 points - 1 win in Team DM
LG - 5 points - 1 x 2nd place in Team DM
Cro_Ownage - 10 points - 1 x SF in CTF
Team Nightmare - 10 points - 1 x SF in CTF
Nocturnal Crusaders - 2 points - 1 x SF in Team DM
Bad Taste - 2 points - 1 x SF in Team DM
Now thanks to ufon we have individual player scores, so if a player switches teams between tourneys, they still get points. Scores are, CTF win 15 points per player, 2nd, 5 points, semi finals, 2 points. Team DM win 5 points, 2nd 2 points, semi final 1 point. Only players that contribute to and play in the final position get points.
Vampire_Knight[NK] - 15 points - Team BH - CTF.
[dp]Malvado - 15 points - Team BH - CTF.
Tennie[NK] - 15 points - Team BH - CTF.
BeRaN - 6 points - Team 66 - CTF, Team Bad Taste TDM.
Titan_66 - 5 points - Team 66 - CTF.
Thomas_TV - 5 points - Team 66 - CTF.
mr.twister - 5 points - Team Pre - TDM.
hokis - 5 points - Team Pre - TDM.
method - 5 points - Team Pre - TDM.
ufon - 5 points - Team Pre - TDM.
Psy-Mushroom - 2 points - Team Cro-Ownage - CTF.
BahdKo- 2 points - Team Nightmare - CTF.
Radeg- 2 points - Team Nightmare - CTF.
DevastatioN - 2 points - Team Nightmare - CTF.
LG_The_Heretic - 2 points - Team LG - TDM.
LG_T.U.D - 2 points - Team LG - Team DM.
LG_CodeImp - 2 points - Team LG - Team DM.
[UD]Humanbones - 2 points - Team LG - Team DM.
206 - 1 point - Team Bad Taste - Team DM.
Poignant - 1 point - Team Bad Taste - Team DM.
Kilgore - 1 point - Team Bad Taste - Team DM.
Hellspawn[NK] - 1 point - Team Nocturnal Crusaders - Team DM.
Cartman - 1 point - Team Nocturnal Crusaders - Team DM.
Tennie[NK] - 1 point - Team Nocturnal Crusaders - Team DM.
deathstar- 1 point - Team Nocturnal Crusaders - Team DM.
Last edited by Samiam on Thu May 12, 2005 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
This is an excelent idea and will definately help with tournament seeding in the future, if u wanted to make it perfect, u could take into account semifinalists as well. You could even take it as far as making some kind of individual ctf/tdm ranking for players(who were in a points earning team) thus bringing out the individual effort behind a team's success.
But hey thats just me always wanting more, gj !
Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Location: England - http://www.limpgimps.co.uk/
Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 3:18 pm Post subject:
ufon wrote:
This is an excelent idea and will definately help with tournament seeding in the future, if u wanted to make it perfect, u could take into account semifinalists as well. You could even take it as far as making some kind of individual ctf/tdm ranking for players(who were in a points earning team) thus bringing out the individual effort behind a team's success.
But hey thats just me always wanting more, gj !
Sounds good, so something like 2 points 3rd place 1 point 4th place say for the open and team points, and umm 10 and 5 in the pro and ctf? Titan was also saying it would be good to get individual players recognised within teams, i'm open to suggestions on how that could be done
[added] ok I spoke to ufon and i'm going to add 2 points for getting to the semis in the open and team DM, and 10 for the Pro and CTF tourneys.
heh tennis rankings.. great idea! It's a simple and very reliable system.
but i I think the points difference between the open and the pro tournament will probably be too much given the fact that only a selected group of players joins the pro tournament.
Perhaps we can let every player start at zero at the beginning of the year and the player who accumulates the most points by the season's end is the 'World' Number 1.
heh tennis rankings.. great idea! It's a simple and very reliable system.
but i I think the points difference between the open and the pro tournament will probably be too much given the fact that only a selected group of players joins the pro tournament.
Perhaps we can let every player start at zero at the beginning of the year and the player who accumulates the most points by the season's end is the 'World' Number 1.
now that would be exactly like in tennis, they have their season ranking ladder starting at zero who gets the most points wins the year and they have their seeding ranking ladder which doesnt get reset so that seeding can be done
Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Location: England - http://www.limpgimps.co.uk/
Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 5:43 pm Post subject:
For the 1 on 1 we can start over with the May tourney results. CTF and Team DM we'll carry on as they are new tourneys
From IRC - [4:19pm] <+Exl> "true experience"
.......Maybe big thanks to vampireKnight for the idea, explanation and documentation, and to ufon for the CTF & Team DM individual player points system
For the 1 on 1 we can start over with the May tourney results. CTF and Team DM we'll carry on as they are new tourneys
From IRC - [4:19pm] <+Exl> "true experience"
.......Maybe big thanks to vampireKnight for the idea, explanation and documentation, and to ufon for the CTF & Team DM individual player points system
a document about rankings in tennis tournaments with an idea to impliment them here, these rankings will help to determine who the overall best regular 1 on 1 tournament players are as well as aid in seeding for the Pro tourneys
Sam, I've said it before and I'll say it again; seeding is evil for ZDaemon tourneys; by violating the randomness of the pairings you will help create / preserve a cozy arrangement of a few high-seeded players at the expense of everyone else. I can understand some tourneys doing that so they can sell more advertising time on TV. What's the exact justification for doing this in ZDaemon? what's so wrong if Sedlo meets Ocelot in the first round and one of them leaves the tourney early? Furthermore... let's say some guy wins a tourney; fine, he gets the points, fame and bragging rights for that tourney. Why on earth should you make things easier for him on the next tourneys? can anyone seriously argue that such a policy is fair?
As for the point system, it's ok (and doesn't matter really) as long as you don't use it for seeding tourneys.
Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Location: England - http://www.limpgimps.co.uk/
Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 8:15 am Post subject:
The only tournaments that are seeded are the Pro tournaments, there have been two to date and no one involved in them have complained about the seedings at all. These tournaments get put on the news on doom sites in numerous languages across the internet and players from all over come in to ZDaemon to play in them, players who for the most part don't bother with the regular tournaments. These are Pro tournaments hosted by ZDaemon for highly skilled doom players, they aren't evil or bad for ZDaemon. If I thought that, I wouldn't run them.
Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Location: England - http://www.limpgimps.co.uk/
Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 1:47 pm Post subject:
New tournament year starting with this months results;
1: [dp]Mephisto - 15 points - 1 x win in open.
2: Tennie[NK] - 5 points - 1 x 2nd in open.
3: Vampire Knight[NK] - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
3: HOTMAN - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
New tournament year starting with this months results;
1: [dp]Mephisto - 15 points - 1 x win in open.
2: Tennie[NK] - 5 points - 1 x 2nd in open.
3: Vampire Knight[NK] - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
3: HOTMAN - 2 points - 1 x SF in open.
Hey sam, my report was just an example, you can have your own points key, i think 15 points for first is a little much, perhaps make it 10?(as an example)
And are you discounting the other tournies thats happened this year? or are you adding the may results onto them?
Hmm, im not too sure about the seeding for Pro tourneys, perhaps a selection of experiences Zdaemon players of the none-disputed 'Pros' themselves could judge who would be worthy to enter. Because someone who hasn't played tourneys for ages so has no points but are still amazing, is it fair not to include them? Say if Sedlo didn't get any points would you deny him?
Because i would like shots at Pro tourny, and i have beaten the likes of a few people who have been in past pro tounrys. I've beaten Englander, Vampire Knight, Obituary. Not saying i do this reguarly, but none of these guys get an easy ride with me. But then again, depends on the map. Im not only speaking for myself but for others too who may well be in my situation.
Joined: 01 Apr 2004 Location: England - http://www.limpgimps.co.uk/
Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 7:52 am Post subject:
Hellspawn don't worry about players who don't play tourneys much, we haven't failed on seeding them in the past
Kris i'll get back onto this asap, I kept the log from the conversation we had about it and your suggestions, I've just been a bit too busy to really get stuck into it yet. And yes we can take it from January instead.
Ive had this idea a while ago, its quite simple: (this is just an example model tho),there would be something we can call "evergy" of a tournament, energy would be simply "points of all players signed up for a turney accumulated at the moment of signing up PUT TOGETHER ], what would that number represent ? we could stick to the tennis terminology and call it the PRIZE MONEY, this would be the number from which all of the points would be handed out, be it 1/5 for the winner and 1/10 for runner-ups or any other ratio - thats not important atm. Of course the number of ppl awarded with points will be much smaller than number of ppl wanting to play, there would be either a preset value for each player without any points or the number could be deduced -by some equation- from the overall points of all players in the season ladder(needs more thinking). Ok, advantages of this system are clear, the more succefull players(likely to be better skilled) in a turney, the higher rewards handed out, and the other way around. Whatcha think ? Feel free to alter, twist or do just about anything u can with this RAW idea.
The only problem in ufons idea is, that as tourneys go by, players have more points from tourneys played before, so the total numb for a tourney increases and so does award for first players, even if there play the same players again and again... If we calculate points from "prize money" 500 as for one tourney, the next tourney with the same players will be "prize money" 500+points given at last tourney. That is why we cant just give 1/5 for winner, 1/10 for second etc, couse this would be higher and higher every tournament and who wins the last tourney, wins possibly much much more the points, than winner of the first tourney... Result is, that the value of each player has to be set at the begining of the season and left on that level until the end of season. After the season, the value of all players would be recounted and changed. The season might be for example half a year, so it moves on faster....
But anyway, I like ufons idea, perhaps what I said sounds strange, but I think it is corect. Of course, the ladder changes during the season normally, just the value of the player for a tourney doesnt, so the tourneys have better ballanced value for the whole season.
Heh, hope I worte it clearly. Opened for discussison of course...
Ive had this idea a while ago, its quite simple: (this is just an example model tho),there would be something we can call "evergy" of a tournament, energy would be simply "points of all players signed up for a turney accumulated at the moment of signing up PUT TOGETHER ], what would that number represent ? we could stick to the tennis terminology and call it the PRIZE MONEY, this would be the number from which all of the points would be handed out, be it 1/5 for the winner and 1/10 for runner-ups or any other ratio - thats not important atm. Of course the number of ppl awarded with points will be much smaller than number of ppl wanting to play, there would be either a preset value for each player without any points or the number could be deduced -by some equation- from the overall points of all players in the season ladder(needs more thinking). Ok, advantages of this system are clear, the more succefull players(likely to be better skilled) in a turney, the higher rewards handed out, and the other way around. Whatcha think ? Feel free to alter, twist or do just about anything u can with this RAW idea.
I disagree with this. The points system is based off the tennis atp tour system, its not based off the prize money. The prize money In tennis, usually in major grandslams, is as you say one lump sum of money which is divided up between the players. Dont get me wrong this is not a bad idea, but as we have already implemented a conventional points ranking system this method will only confuse things.
Ive had this idea a while ago, its quite simple: (this is just an example model tho),there would be something we can call "evergy" of a tournament, energy would be simply "points of all players signed up for a turney accumulated at the moment of signing up PUT TOGETHER ], what would that number represent ? we could stick to the tennis terminology and call it the PRIZE MONEY, this would be the number from which all of the points would be handed out, be it 1/5 for the winner and 1/10 for runner-ups or any other ratio - thats not important atm. Of course the number of ppl awarded with points will be much smaller than number of ppl wanting to play, there would be either a preset value for each player without any points or the number could be deduced -by some equation- from the overall points of all players in the season ladder(needs more thinking). Ok, advantages of this system are clear, the more succefull players(likely to be better skilled) in a turney, the higher rewards handed out, and the other way around. Whatcha think ? Feel free to alter, twist or do just about anything u can with this RAW idea.
I disagree with this. The points system is based off the tennis atp tour system, its not based off the prize money. The prize money In tennis, usually in major grandslams, is as you say one lump sum of money which is divided up between the players. Dont get me wrong this is not a bad idea, but as we have already implemented a conventional points ranking system this method will only confuse things.
Maybe usefull iin one off tourneys:P
Im not saying anything already done was bassed off the prize money, it was only a comparison made to help me with explaing what i had in mind, anyway tomsa is right this would never work unless done with regards to previous seasons, which isnt that hard to do but its another complication.....i guess not worth it atm so im not gonna push this anymore.
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