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The Plasma Gun -- Gay or Nay?

 
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Oxyde
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Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Location: France

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:43 am    Post subject: The Plasma Gun -- Gay or Nay? Reply with quote

Bonjour fellow ZDaemoners!

Today, I'd like to get some advice regarding a very special weapon, you guessed it, the Plasma Gun! I would like to get some piece of opinion regarding this monstruosity of a weapon in competitive modes. Let's leave Single Player out of the box today because who doesn't enjoy blazing thourhg a crowd of IMPs with said weapon? Wink

As I have been working on 0-X Duel, that super fancy NS map that I originally created for Nero's NS league (which never took place, boohoo Sad ), I have come to ask myself "Is a Plasma Gun really needed here?" As a NS map, the pace of the gameplay and the vertical oriented action of the level makes this weapon barely usable in any way. The only creative use of this weapon I've found (within this map) is to deny your opponent's access to certain areas by spamming through the teleporters. Notice the key word here "Spamming".
The Plasma Gun ultimately ended being replaced by a much more fitting weapon for a NS map; The beloved and hated at the same time Railgun.

Now, why am I telling you this? Because as a fairly incompetent deathmatcher, I have come to the shocking conclusion that; As a creative player, the Plasma Gun is an absolutely useless weapon.

Think of it this way;
* In most CTF maps, the Plasma Gun serves only one purpose: Spam the living crap out of the ennemy base entrance to prevent ennemies from leaving. I have never been any good at doing this, but some extra skilled FFA-ers easily get large Killing Sprees doing this.

So, Pros and Cons of Plasma Gun in CTF:
- Pushes ennemy team back sothey can't leave their base.
- Gets you large Killing Sprees.
- Gives your team a moral boost by knowing the ennemy is helpless.

- Makes it so most ennemies hate you because all you do is hold the fire key. (Hello TF2 Pyro, long time no see!)

Now for Duel;
* The Plasma is never, and I mean never used in Duel. A lot of the mind games come from knowing what your opponent is up to. At high level, Duel is like a game of Chess. Now, if you yell at your opponent the next 3 moves you will pull, you will get punished instantly. Same goes for the Plasma Gun in Duel. The projectiles fly from point A to point B, you know where the ennemy was and where he was aiming, making catching your opponent easier. Haven't seen the plasma balls? Don't worry, the annoying sound the gun makes will give away your position to nearby servers.
The only exception to this rule I have met is King1. In this map, one of the spawn spots makes you start directly on the Plasma Gun thus making it the primary mean of defending yourself against a trigger-happy opponent.

So, Pros and Cons of Plasma Gun in Duel:
- Gives you extra BFG shots.
- Reveals your position a mile away.

Let's not mention FFA; In this one, all spam is worth gold towards your victory, and the constant chaos going on makes things hard to read.

As you can see, I don't see many redeeming qualities of the Plasma Gun in any form of competition.

Please, give me your opinion on this weapon because, as a level designer, I want to make maps that are enjoyable for myself of course, but also for as many people as possible. Some people enjoy a smooth gameplay along with some neat tricks while others prefer to spam their brains out until there's no ammo left in the world.

So what do you think, and, what should I do as a level designer? Smile
Merci!
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IleKallio
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Joined: 14 Jun 2009
Location: a humanistic plane of existence

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just gotta point out that the plasma gun plays a pretty big role in entryway, because the plasma stream works wonders for map control and there's also an element of (reverse) psychology in the bursts.
I think the only reason why it has an actual role in entryway is because of the map's closed-endedness and due to it being the standard go-to weapon for 2 of the 4 spawns.

I don't think you can ever get the plasma gun to be a viable weapon in a map that is open-ended, unless it has some dead ends or stuff.
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capodecima
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Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Location: Czech Republic Clan: [FW]

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol
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Aeyesx
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Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Location: Czech Republic

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put it maybie on a place that is difficult to get to, like you know... few crushers to get to the plasma in center of map so it is up to the player if he take the risk of dying or a chance to get a plasma to smash more oppononets...
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Sr69Mm-jC
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Joined: 21 Jul 2011

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it's safe to assume that Medis completely ignored everything OP posted.
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Oxyde
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Joined: 01 Feb 2012
Location: France

PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IleKallio wrote:
Just gotta point out that the plasma gun plays a pretty big role in entryway, because the plasma stream works wonders for map control and there's also an element of (reverse) psychology in the bursts.
I think the only reason why it has an actual role in entryway is because of the map's closed-endedness and due to it being the standard go-to weapon for 2 of the 4 spawns.

I don't think you can ever get the plasma gun to be a viable weapon in a map that is open-ended, unless it has some dead ends or stuff.


Thanks Ile!
I'd like to point out that I mentionned "creative", so let's leave Enryway where it is! Wink I know that, for the few times I've played it, the Plasma Gun is a key weapon to control the map.
Like you said, Entryway is a fairly cramped map, hence the weapon's efficiency!

capodecima wrote:
Lol

Thank you for your valuable input! You have greatly helped this thread going further and definitely made it worth reading!

Sr69Mm-jC wrote:
I guess it's safe to assume that Medis completely ignored everything OP posted.

I guess so. What's yours SR? As a great Quake player and a level designer aswell, what do you think of the Plasma Gun and how should it be placed?
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Sr69Mm-jC
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Joined: 21 Jul 2011

PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oxyde wrote:
I guess so. What's yours SR? As a great Quake player and a level designer aswell, what do you think of the Plasma Gun and how should it be placed?

I appreciate it although I'm certainly far from a 'great' Quake player. As for the topic, my answer is - I honestly have no idea. Surprised
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dewww
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's possible to use the PG as a sort of super-chainsaw. It means you don't let your opponent know you hold it and then you start spazzing out as he closes in for the SSG blast. Of course given that he doesn't finish you off with the first shot. :) You can see the tactic used in judas, at least by players that don't just cycle ssg/bfg mechanically. It would also be usable on ssl2, but bumping the PG there is a bit too inconvenient and requires practicing the grab religiously. Exodus has some sensible plasma action too if both players meet up in the upper hallway.

Basically you can put plasma to good use if there are cramped hallway-like segments of your map.
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capodecima
Spamming!


Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Location: Czech Republic Clan: [FW]

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I changed my mind kinda. Very Happy The plasma may be really useful in some moments, on entryway you can hold enemy back with plasma very easy and do big damage, will not talk here how important is the learn grab plasma from the south respawn on high/top level. I think the plasma in doom 2 duels is pretty similar to plasma in QL, you dont see use this gun a lot by pro players but they can use it in some situations. I think the ideal scenario when use plasma are corridors with a lot corners and stuff so you can show spam corridor hide behind corner etc. Its good tactic and you need tons of skills use it effective or you will die quickly.
I dont think its really easy put plasma on map be useful. Example you can see king. I think its awesome map for duels but i really never found being plasma useful here and you can see even 2 plasmas here. But i think king1 totaly the example of map where plasma is only ammo for bfg but it works really flawlessly here.
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