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ZDS #125 - Heretics go dungeon diving!

 
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TheCupboard
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Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:36 am    Post subject: ZDS #125 - Heretics go dungeon diving! Reply with quote


It’s not often that ZDS decides to get Heretical but this week we’ll be stowing our SSGs and chainsaws in favor of enchanted crossbows and flesh-searing gauntlets. Yes ma’am, we’re playing “Hehretic” for Heretic.

Random picture
Oh my another one!
...and for good measure

It’s a pack of levels that I’ve been designing for a little while. The goal was to make some co-op material that took advantage of the mass-monster infinite ammo style of gameplay that has been used in many popular Doom wads but hasn’t been tried in Heretic. Now, you won’t see extreme challenges equivalent to packs of archviles with no cover or a long hallway with twenty cyberdemons in it, but the levels still throw a lot at you and keep the difficulty high. There are two new custom monsters, the weapons have been beefed up a bit, and some stock monsters are deadlier than before. These changes help improve the game balance of Heretic that many people find a bit… off at times.

So, woo! Give it a chance if you’re feeling unsure. See ya’ll on Zaturday!

Game Mode: COOP
IWAD: Heretic
PWADs: hehretic_e
whskins1b

Maps: 18 (E2M1-E2M9, E3M1-E3M9)
DMFLAGS: 280612/34734144
Skill: 3 - Ultraviolence
Timelimit: No
Players: 8 (+2 spectator slots)
Voting: Kick, Map

Date: Saturday 23rd January
Time: 7:30pm UK Time / 9:00 pm EST
Locations: L@P/XXX & Unfy/3-BET/Canadian Bacon

Server hosts can link to Fathax (Put 'http:\\wadhost.fathax.com/files/getwad.php/%s' in as the URL link).


Last edited by TheCupboard on Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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Cybershark
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sooooooo looking forward to this! ...which is odd because Doom2 lawmower co-op bores the shit out of me Laughing
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Dark_Odyssey
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Joined: 30 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaaah ... Heretic a bit ! If it´s not saturday night in 5 minutes, I´ll turn into "D´espair-il" ... Very Happy

Yeah, I´ve got a heap of anticipation. too ... so frickin´ succumb to us, Heretics, and be there everyone !

Cya on Zaturday !
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LordBritish
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My avatar approves.
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TheCupboard
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Show your Heretic pride! Cool

In other news, I split the levels and skins up into separate files and updated Hehretic a bit to get rid of some monster bugs for this weekend. Hopefully things go swimmingly!
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qwaszx-
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.
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The Ultimate DooMer
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I myself am a proud member of Heretics Anonymous.
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Cybershark
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Errr... wouldn't that mean you are trying to quit playing it? Laughing
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The Ultimate DooMer
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nope Razz
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Cybershark
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does nobody reply to these things after the sessions anymore? Sad

Awesome stuff! This style of co-op bores me, so this must have been pretty special to make me enjoy it. The first few maps seemed a bit dull looking but after that there was some very pretty stuff. The new monsters were very cool too - loved the mini archviles!

Did get booted by the server a couple of times but that's not bad at all for saying I played all 18maps.

And I took loads of great pics from this sesh:



More in the screenshot thread!
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shinobi-cl
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... i had a blast playing this... definitively Heretic > Doom for cooperative..
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TheCupboard
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Joined: 25 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For a while at the Europe session there were like ten or so people. I haven't experienced that many people in a Heretic server all at the same time before. Laughing Lots of fun for me!

Well, I got confirmation on Sunday that people aren't completely allergic to Heretic (sometimes it's about near impossible to fill servers though). For now, I'll probably work on more maps and bugfixing. When I first started, I wasn't sure if anyone was even going to like this weird project, but now filling more mapslots doesn't sound like such a crazy idea anymore. Six episodes of nine maps each!? That's still plenty far off a bit! Wink

Plas Krawa for hosting and to those who showed up! Very Happy Shark, those are some purty pictures!
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The Ultimate DooMer
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about all your other projects though Cup? Razz

And yeah, this wad is officially made of win. Much more interesting than the usual Doom variants of this wad type (providing Heretic's features are used nicely like they are here)
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Dark_Odyssey
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, well, well ... this is the second sesh where I post AT ALL, so reckon with future "aftershow comments" from ME, at least, Kyber Razz

A great evening with a great PWAD for a great IWAD, to be sure, and I was , amongst many other details, just stricken by the Imp Warlord skin ... lovely work here.

If it was for me only, there would be MUCH more Heretic and Hexen gaming going on, but alas, how to convince all those Brit/Exec/Dwango/Whatsoever addicts ... *sigh*.

Definitely looking forward to a more regular coverage ... cya in the next dungeon Very Happy
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[WH]-Wilou84
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wanted to attend that sesh, but missed again heh :/

Dark_Odyssey wrote:
If it was for me only, there would be MUCH more Heretic and Hexen gaming going on, but alas, how to convince all those Brit/Exec/Dwango/Whatsoever addicts ... *sigh*.

Sadly Hexen / Heretic lack a powerful and reliable 1-hit-kill weapon like Doom II's Super Shotgun for multiplayer games.
Instead, many Heretic weapons throw semi-weak projectiles that the player can usually avoid. Even tomed weapons are not effective enough ( maybe the Ethereal Crossbow would be ? ).

Would love to see more Heretic and Hexen SP wads though ( minus the gruesome switch-hunting in Hexen, of course ).
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The Ultimate DooMer
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[WH]-Wilou84 wrote:
Sadly Hexen / Heretic lack a powerful and reliable 1-hit-kill weapon like Doom II's Super Shotgun for multiplayer games.


What's sad about that? Razz

Quote:
Instead, many Heretic weapons throw semi-weak projectiles that the player can usually avoid. Even tomed weapons are not effective enough ( maybe the Ethereal Crossbow would be ? ).


Not really...try playing Parthoris with a few people (or even 1on1) and you'll see quite a bit more depth than the 1-weapon Doom deathmatches.
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[WH]-Wilou84
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well basically Dark_Odyssey was more or less asking how players could gain interest in Heretic.

On the Single Player side, I'm sure things will improve thanks to the GPL release of the source code, which will lead to "vanilla" source ports that will run on modern OSes ( "PrHeretic" ? ).

On the Multiplayer side, though... Heretic DM servers are even less populated than Doom.wad ones. There must be some mysterious reason behind it, right ? Smile
It's not that people don't own the Heretic IWad, we all know it's not a problem those days.
I do think the reason is that the weapons are badly balanced for DM, as I said above. Then again, it's just my feeling as a player.

Why do you think people don't play Heretic DM ?
Because they're too afraid of leaving D5M1 for a minute or two ? :p

( Tried Parthoris a few years ago, it's a great much-needed mapset, like Lesion2 is for Doom.wad )
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The Ultimate DooMer
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
On the Single Player side, I'm sure things will improve thanks to the GPL release of the source code, which will lead to "vanilla" source ports that will run on modern OSes ( "PrHeretic" ? ).


ZDoom/GZDoom have supported Heretic/Hexen for years (use dmflags/compatflags for a closer-to-vanilla feel if you wish), and there's been some big Heretic releases of late:

Curse of D'Sparil

Heretic Treasure Chest

[WH]-Wilou84 wrote:
Why do you think people don't play Heretic DM ?
Because they're too afraid of leaving D5M1 for a minute or two ? :p


That, and brit10 Razz

Nah it's cos they only know how to use one weapon (or in the case of brit10 a different one weapon), and don't like it when they know they can't just 1-shot people from 384+ units away...and in Heretic you have extra thinking involved due to the inventory system.
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Dark_Odyssey
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I do think the reason is that the weapons are badly balanced for DM, as I said above. Then again, it's just my feeling as a player.


And that´s exactly where, in MY opionion, there´s the rub ... attitudes disperse between Heretic DM *DM* players, and Heretic DM *Heretic* players.

I play these games much more for the "atmosphere" and "feeling" that inhabit them than for balance, winning streaks and, of course, experience ... not to imply you do Smile

Certain levels of intrigue and detail, when it comes to tactics, winning and the whole thing in itself ARE enticing, that goes without saying, but I for my part don´t care if I´ve got a SSG or a Big Fuzzy Girl in my sweaty little palms, instead I get wholly absorbed by your fancy, oldfashioned round of the HERETIC game classic Very Happy

The same goes for DooM, naturally ... ^^
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Cybershark
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[WH]-Wilou84 wrote:
( Tried Parthoris a few years ago, it's a great much-needed mapset, like Lesion2 is for Doom.wad )

\o/

But once you get over the hurdle of the lack of ammo then Heretic DM can be very cool - especially once you add in the Tome of Power and other artifacts. I'd wholeheartedly recommend the Heretic conversion of Judas23 that I made to anyone (although it doesn't play with OS settings).
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