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new vato COOP wad
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vatoloko[PMCD]
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Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Location: drogales

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:58 am    Post subject: new vato COOP wad Reply with quote

so
i have my new wad done first map only
make a server
use ammo infinitum or what ever
go fun

http://wadhost.fathax.com/files/vatosquare.rar
make server ultraviolece and hard mosnter please
cya
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TheCupboard
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Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Bad monster placement. Just because there is space to cram an army into a room doesn't mean that you have to place an army.
2. Too flat.
3. Lighting is too similar.
4. Every room looks the same as the previous one.
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TimeOfDeath
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Joined: 03 Nov 2004

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheCupboard obviously missed the point. I'm guessing this is a remake of SQUARES. Either way, that kind of monster placement bashing really gets on my nerves - it usually comes from players who couldn't even max the map quickly.

I don't see how this map would run smoothly on a server, but I was surprised how smoothly it ran on my laptop in single player zdoom - the fps was actually playable. I really liked the map, but I thought a couple of changes would make it way more fun/playable in single player, I hope you don't mind:

single player version - vatosquare-singleplayer.wad
max demo - 11:34 (zdoom 2.2.0)

The changes I made were:
- make the window in each room 64 units tall, so that you can jump in and out of the windows into the center area
- moved the barriers that block the two teleporters closer together, to prevent glides
- make all of the outer rooms 128 units tall instead of 112, except the keen rooms, so that you can walk under doors even when you're standing on top of a monster
- put one megasphere in both pain elemental rooms
- made the doors in the archvile rooms open stay fast (the ones that lead to the mancubus room), so that you can run past the archviles without dying
- made the teleporter in front of bfg 34 units away from the wall so you can squeeze by and get bfg (I was only able to wallrun past the teleporter and get bfg one time on the original version).

Vatoloko, did you make infinitecoop9.wad?
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Cybershark
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Timey! Very Happy

Good to see you but I'm going to have to disagree with you on several points here:

TimeOfDeath wrote:
TheCupboard obviously missed the point. I'm guessing this is a remake of SQUARES.

I never heard of 'squares' and Vatoloko didn't say anything about it so how are we supposed to know if its a remake or not. Looking at the map then did it even need to be remade or paid tribute to?

TimeOfDeath wrote:
Either way, that kind of monster placement bashing really gets on my nerves - it usually comes from players who couldn't even max the map quickly.

LOL! Do you have any idea how many times I heard the same kind of ridiculous argument from hardcore OS deathmatch nerds when their precious MAP01 gets insulted?
"OMG you must only hate it because you suck at it!111!"

TimeOfDeath wrote:
I really liked the map

I think you're reading too much into this and giving credit where it isn't due. I have a hard time thinking of such a simple construction as being an actual 'map'. Is there not enough of this kind of concept out there that we could live without this one? Besides, clearly there's nowhere near as much thought gone into this as you suspect or else why would Vatoloko have placed all that ammo at the start yet still call for Infinite Ammo to be enabled?

TimeOfDeath wrote:
Vatoloko, did you make infinitecoop9.wad?

Dunno about that but he did make this which wasn't terribly well received.


Oh and Vatoloko, ZIP is the prefered method of file archiving here. GetWAD can't deal with RARs or other forms of compression so it's kinda pointless to use them.
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vatoloko[PMCD]
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Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Location: drogales

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheCupboard
wanted to make a good map and it all starts with a square, then I came to the idea of making a map square, square full, without much problem and easy to pass, but only some linear and the rest would be difficult to copy and paste, and so it is this map called square dude. or vatocuadrado or vatosquare. whatever... jojojojo
which is why spaces are identical ..
really did not think much on decorating, or anything like that.
what monster is by many who wanted to put a moustro per square but I miscalculated the amounts, which then decide to arrive by bugs ..

TimeOfDeath
i neveer see before that map of square but is really like same, but is not the same, wtf the area vile is same OMG. " in that moment i eat burrito, maybe him or she eat to" jajajajaja I PUT that way because i dont want problem whit that damn archvile wake up all.
thx for change....
that for update mapreally thx
1.- windows i forget "naaa im lizy" i leave. make it 64 x 64 THX
2.- put one megasphere in both pain elemental rooms THX really forget
3.- squeeze to get BFG mmmm i think that was really god idea but is only joke for the players but , ok squeeze mm like that to.. THX
4.- infinitecoop9.wad NOP i really want make that wad, but is not my.
5.-if i make more wad u can help me?? like this.. how i can play this whit 8 ppl some time, less mosters maybe..
6- OMG LIKE THE MAP that is all for ME first seid that d:p

Cybershark

I never heard of 'squares' ME two.
i ll make in zip now i did not know who does not read rar

LOL! Do you have any idea how many times I heard the same kind of ridiculous argument from hardcore OS deathmatch nerds when their precious MAP01 gets insulted?
"OMG you must only hate it because you suck at it!111!"
and that is true..

gracias a todos por sus comentarios. son los mejores en el tema...
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Kruczyslaw
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Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Location: Abbadon, Poland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ilasa satana micalazoda olapireta !

I know that English is maybe not your native language (like mine) but "that" what you write here is out of any grammar and logical form...
We was give you tips when you relese your previours map. Less monsters! Noone wanna play and host this crap becouse it needs WTF CONNECTION AND PATIENCE!

ToD: nice..very well ..I like your "remake"
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TimeOfDeath
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Joined: 03 Nov 2004

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vatoloko - yes, I really like it. That's pretty crazy that you've never seen SQUARES before Smile. I think bfg in coop would make the map really short, so I like the original version bfg joke. The changes I made were just for single player version.


Cyber - Yeah, I really missed your infinite ammo bashing. Razz
Even if it was a remake, I don't see a problem with it. I think 1squares.wad is a really fun map to play. If someone doesn't like a map then that's fine, but saying this map has "bad monster placement", like it's a fact, bothers me. TheCupboard doesn't even playtest his own maps without saves. I don't care how much time or thought vatoloko put into his map. He posted his map, I played his map, I liked his map and made some small changes to make it, imo, more fun/playable for recording a max demo in single player. Did you even watch the demo and try beating the map yourself? If you and other haters could get a similar time then I'd take your criticisms seriously.
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ZERO99
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TOD! where you been man! was wondering where you went.
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Cybershark
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Timey and Vatoloko:
Meh, I'd say it's you guys 'missing the point', not us. Doom is about way more than just how fast you can slag a crapload of monsters, which is why I deride this type of 'map' - well, that and because it simply bores the crap out of me. If it had some context as a novelty map within a larger WAD then it would rate higher in my opinion.

Okay, okay, so it might be mildly challenging to see what sort of SP time you can get on it. But Time says it took him ~11:30? Sorry, but that's ten minutes plus that I'd rather not waste on something like this.

TimeOfDeath wrote:
Did you even watch the demo and try beating the map yourself? If you and other haters could get a similar time then I'd take your criticisms seriously.

Hahaha, watch the demo too? So then I've wasted 20+ minutes in total?! Thanks, but no thanks.
And I can't take your stance seriously. Like I said above, I've seen it dozens of times from DM players when MAP01 gets criticised for being shit. They turn around and say "Well obviously that's because you're no good on it/don't get it". "No, no, I get it and I can play it but I still think it's shit..."

TimeOfDeath wrote:
Cyber - Yeah, I really missed your infinite ammo bashing. Razz

I wasn't doing that here actually. Just commenting on how daft it looked to have all that ammo in the map with it on.
But hey, while we're on the subject then let me tell you another good reason that this sucks Smile
This is Zdaemon and the WAD is being hyped as 'new vato COOP wad'. The author made no mention of it being intended for SP and so yes, it looks like a pile of poo when you consider that it's probably going to end up with 8+ players in there, all flexing their superguns. Maxrun that Laughing
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TimeOfDeath
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZERO, Smile I've been over at doomworld making single player maps.


Cyber - This isn't dm. If you want to prove yourself in single player, you record a demo.
Cybershark wrote:
"No, no, I get it and I can play it but I still think it's shit..."

Sure, there are people who can max this quickly and still won't like it, but I guarantee you are not one of them. Maybe if you'd watch the demo you'd learn something and maybe you might appreciate the map a bit. Maybe not.

Doom is about a lot of things to a lot of different people. I like all sorts of maps with different gameplay and looks. I also like killing hordes of monsters with infinite ammo and, imo, the best gun ever made in a video game - a gun that rewards more aggressive use with dealing more damage.

Why do you have to be such a hater. Razz
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_Death_
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Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Location: The lower side of Hell's Ass.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Well, Time of Death. Where has your canadian ass been? Wink
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Cybershark
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look you gimps, I've just had to edit 3 posts in here for length. Use your goddamn common sense here:

If you want to pick out a certain part of somebody's post to reply to then you use the button.

If you are simply replying to the person directly before then THERE IS NO FUCKING NEED TO QUOTE THEIR WHOLE POST ALL OVER AGAIN and you should simply use the button.

And the beauty of this is that it works just as well whatever your native language may be!


*clears throat*

TimeOfDeath wrote:
ZERO, Smile I've been over at doomworld making single player maps.

Cyber - This isn't dm. If you want to prove yourself in single player, you record a demo.

I wasn't saying it was DM, just that you were drawing an interesting parallel to the mindset of some players there - like maybe the guys who defend shoot.wad.

I stand by my case that this WAD holds nothing of great interest to co-op players, and as this is Zdaemon then that is the target market here. I'd be interested to see this posted over on DoomWorld and see what they make of it as a whole though.
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TimeOfDeath
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to play this in coop, but yeah, I can't see this running smoothly on a server unless God himself hosted it.

I'm pretty sure this would get bashed on Doomworld too. I get the impression that infinite ammo isn't taken seriously by most people over there and many people seem to hate slaughter maps. Cool
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ZERO99
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TimeOfDeath wrote:
ZERO, Smile I've been over at doomworld making single player maps.


good to see your still mapping, drown in blood was one of the wads that drove me to start mapping Very Happy
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dewww
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TimeOfDeath wrote:
I get the impression that infinite ammo isn't taken seriously by most people over there and many people seem to hate slaughter maps. 8)

heya tod, got bored of flaming on dw? :) anyways, you're really looking for patterns in chaos here. or rather for a purpose in pure lazy copy&paste rush job. i'm not a slaughtermaps fan myself, but i can respect it if it makes sense. this, on the other hand, looks like the lost level from 1337.wad, or maybe mock2 overflow.. or nuts1994 .. you get the idea. i played the map in zd local mode, here's a playthrough review.

so, i look at a HUGE pile of armor and ammo. okay, nothing wrong with that. except the ammo. why is it there if it's an infinite ammo wad? it's impossible to max the level without it, so why bother? oh wait, let me guess: the author had zero plans and just layed shit down in the editor. so, let's see the awesome squares...

1. a double-room full of zombies. woo, fun times. they fall like flies no matter what weapon i use. gratuitous, but almost arbitrary.

2. a room full of sargeants. ugh, starting to see a pattern here. so i provoke some infighting, backpedal around a corner and kill whatever comes through the door. boring ssg/cg routine, meh.

3. i expect a pig room and i get... a ROOM FULL OF KEENS!?!!! WHYYY?! this is not 'bad monster placement', this is A FUCKING CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY. no matter what weapons you have, killing hordes of keens is always boring, purposeless and tasteless.

at this point, i realize there was another door in the zombie doubleroom. seeing and cleearing out a copy&pasted sargeant room, i approach the next door in silent hill-like fear. my expectations were met. the level is entirely symmetrical. give the author a medal, he just discovered an entirely new continent of PURPOSELESS BOREDOM. blargh. i'm sticking to just one side, thank you.

4. finally, the pig room. as i yawn in utter surprise, i start the classic pig herding routine and i swear i age 200 years until i'm finished. i take no damage, of course. meh, boooooring.

5. next, there is a room full of... chaingunner corpses. a stray pig opened the door, activated the poor fucks and they proceeded to massacre themselves, minus a few lucky survivors. gj, vatoloco, finally a room that isn't tearingly annoying, heh.

6. WHAT THE FUCK IT'S FULL OF REVENATS!!1!! fuck off. with just ssg/cg/sg, there's no way i'm doing this. tod, i read your comments and saw some of your previous demos, so i can just assume you jumped on their heads and returned with a stronger weapon, but you HACKED the level to make it somewhat possible. other than crazy maxrunners, no one will do that. coop folks will shoot ssg for a while, die a lot, then leave in disgust. every sensible slaughter map gives you RL or PG to deal with rev crowds. IDKFA and FFFFUUUUU.

7. a room full of nazis. i'm on the verge of mental breakdown. is this just a huge joke? anything containing nazis is ridiculed as stupid, because they're lame, badly animated and intended for a funny secret level cameo. also, the difficulty curve just went from infinity to minus infinity.

8. oh, great. a room full of pain elementals. more impossibly lame monsters! the guy is definitely mocking us. i push back the idea i should be clearing them out with ssg/cg and just mop it up quickly with RL. this is disgusting.

9. i'm finally, completely broken. the idea of battling two spiderdemons with just a ssg is ridiculous, so a rush to cause an infight is in place. then you find out you're targeted by some 60 archviles. zdaemon couldn't stand the flamey assault and my computer slowed down to crawl. i wasn't able to backpedal and died. i think i was tearing blood. after respawn, i just iddqd/idkfa'd the shit out of the place. this is absolutely ridiculous FUCKING CRAP, pure in it's form.

10. the mancos/weapons room. wtf?! besides the zombie room, this has to be the easiest spot in the map. there's just a few of the fatties and they're ridiculously easy to dodge. and you can grab plasma/rl, finally. actually, this is setting the ballance somewhat right, but after all the bullshit before, it's just another sad failure of the difficulty curve.

11. the central room. i got nothing. T.H.E.E.N.D. some laughingly easy cacos, then TENS OF CYBERS, mixed with some archviles and hks. even with bfg and iddqd, this was... a soul torture. WHYYYYY would i be interested in circle-strafing a horde of cybers, anyways? ooooh and the funniest thing- i'm not supposed to have the BFG! coz i cheated! BFG is just a joke and it's not supposed to be picked up! taking all those cybers with just the PG/RL?! FUCK OFF, YOU FUCKING RETARDED DICKHEAD! I'D RATHER MURDER A NURSERY, THEN SHOOT MY BRAIN OUT AND SPEND THE REST OF ETERNITY WITH DEMONS OF HELL EATING MY GUTS!

final verdict: GRAARHGVAHGVLAKGVAKGVAaHAGHAJXXJXJAKLHV/10.
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Tuomio
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dewww...... cmon maaaan you need this
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dewww
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as a side note: i love tod's and belial's demos on 1squares.wad. this map looks like a cruel parody of that wad. and i played most it... not sober. ditto for the review.
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TimeOfDeath
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I'm saying is that I like the map. I like a lot of maps. I'm pretty easy to please. When I tried out the original version, I didn't think it would run smoothly in coop because of all the monsters = lag lag lag, but I thought it had a lot of potential to be, imo, a fun map in single player, with a few changes made that I posted about earlier. But I still think the original version would be fun to play in coop (at least, I'd enjoy it, because I like maps like this).

First, let's just forget about the lag issue, since I can't really see that being fixed without deleting lots of monsters. With all the monsters, open space, and no bfg, I think this would play best with like 16 players (otherwise, I agree it would be too tedious without lots of players, unless you're in the mood for a really long battle). 8 players could go left at the start, 8 players could go right, and it shouldn't take too long to clear out each room with everyone shooting - or all 16 players could go either left or right to release the cybers sooner. When you get to the archvile room, someone could stand by the door and shoot the viles while others run past and go in the mancubus room to lower the walls and open the teleporters, then release the cybers. If you want out of the center area, just die and respawn. Even in the original version, you can get bfg by wallrunning past the teleport linedef. If it doesn't work and you teleport into the center area, die and respawn and try again (now the teleporters in the keen rooms are open, so it won't take long to try again). Now can snipe the cybers from the rooms, or take your chances in the center area.

I tried this out in zdaemon local, and now I see why the rooms were 112 units high - the doors have tutti-frutti when the rooms are 128 units tall. My bad.

About the keen rooms - I liked them. You can wait to kill them until other monsters are infighting, to help budget your time.
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EarthQuake
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Joined: 02 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

God.

There hasn't been such a controversial map released around here since Desert Storm. LOL GUYS, REMEMBER DESERT STORM?

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Tuomio
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Why is there a sky texture on the ground?
- IT IS SAND LOL"
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