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Duel Surge II: ZDaemon edition Demo

 
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Wagi
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Joined: 25 Feb 2009

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:28 pm    Post subject: Duel Surge II: ZDaemon edition Demo Reply with quote

Duel Surge II is a pack of Duel maps that me and other people are making on/for Skulltag. I was thinking that maybe that this community would know a tad more about mapping (seeing some of the maps in this forum), or maybe would simply appreciate a nice mappack.

When Duel Surge II is done, I will begin to make a ZDaemon-compatible version. Some of the maps will be removed from the ZD version if they use Skulltag-specific features (Skulltag's weapons, runes, etc) so much that making it ZD compatible would rape the map.

I am releasing a quick two-map demo (There are 20 currently in the Skulltag version). Except for the fact that the nukage on the walls doesn't warp on MAP01, both play and appear exactly how they do in the Skulltag version.

Of course, it uses textures from Skulltag.wad, most of which were made by Nick Baker. Credit is given in the txt file where credit is due.

Edit: Alright. URL's are being a pain in the ass right now. You can just copy the link provided below to download.

Edit2: Just updated the link. This fixes a bug with a reject map that causes bots and Rocket blasts to sometimes not respond.

www.freewebs.com/srwagi/DsZda.zip

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Kruczyslaw
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Joined: 20 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This wad makes my day. Good job!
8/10
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DoomKid
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Joined: 09 May 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reeks of sexyness! loving the layouts man!
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ZERO99
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

these are boring maps for 1on1, take your linear crap and leave it in skulltag.

THERE FIXED


Last edited by ZERO99 on Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Wagi
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Joined: 25 Feb 2009

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any tips on how to make it less "linear"? I always thought "linear" was the absence of multiple paths from point 'A' to point 'B' (ie. escape routes). Can you provide some areas of the map in particular with the greatest problems? This would be very helpful.
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ZERO99
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are hardly any escape routes at. these maps mostly just contain hallways. map 02 is just a bunch of raised square areas connected by bridges. this would be good FFA material but i wouldnt call this 1on1 material.
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Wagi
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Joined: 25 Feb 2009

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that you mention it, MAP02 is, quite sadly, exactly what you described above. It will be tough to improve this particular map's layout in this respect, but I have a few ideas on how to do this without totally overhauling the map. I'll spare the boring details, but it will also get rid of that awful staircase on the westernmost side of the map, which is awkward on the way up and a terrific feat to descend quickly without bumping into a wall. Hopefully the next version will be less like a bundle of hallways and will have more fighting space.

MAP01 I have trouble seeing the problem in this respect, although I see your point in areas like the northernmost waterway.
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ZERO99
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1on1 maps id say is the hardest of all to make, you need to add things for people to use to a strategic point. Look at judas there is so much you can do standing in one spot its crazy. no matter what way or place you are there is multiple places to go to escape from and attack from. Not only that there is places to trick your opponents as well. making some halls connected with a few open area's doesnt equal golden 1on1 material its just a map with some halls to run down and an open area to fuck around in.

but dont look at these as bad maps, look at them as learning opportunitys. yes people make mistakes its unavoidable but we make them for a reason.
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Wagi
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Joined: 25 Feb 2009

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You pretty much repeated exactly what I said on the Skulltag forums when I wrote a Duel mapping tutorial. You make it sound as if there is a lack of multiple routes from one area to another though, which simply isn't true; studying off of GW20 gave me the very idea of "facilitating predictability".

From the northeastern corner of MAP01, for example, you can go up a staircase to the highest point of the map, down another staircase to the waterway, jump to the shelter with the RL, or down to the armor. From this point you have two indirect routes to the highest point in the map (down the stairs and up the lift, or jumping to the RL shelter and then jumping up from there), not including the direct route up the stairs.
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ZERO99
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes but there is no balance anywhere else you focused it all in to 1 area making the other area's pretty much useless.
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Cybershark
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Location: off the grid, but still fighting for the users!

PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZERO99 wrote:
these are boing maps for 1on1, take your linear crap and leave it in skulltag.

BOING MAPS! Laughing

I'd say to go easy on the guy Zero but I guess he did ask for it by saying about his 'ridiculously high standards' n'such.
Map01's layout is ok, look a little like Moo2d but the weapon placement is terrible with all those SSGs littered around.
Map02 is just bad. Reminds me a bit of that all-wood Greenwar map but not in a good way. It's just bland and while I think it'd make fun 4way DM then I wouldn't recommend it for duels.

Glad you are taking the feedback on board Smile
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ZERO99
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

supposed to be boring let me fix that up.........ehh..... there we go.
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Wagi
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, alright.

If I can get a concurrent opinion that MAP01's layout, I have a new version on paper that will add more routes and detours to certain places. It will also have ladders instead of lifts (much easier to escape from the waterway). If I get a similar complaint that the map is too "linear", then I will execute the new plan and see how much better it is.

I can also address the recent weapon placement complaint, but only to a certain extent. The reason why there are SSG's next to every start spot stems from the fact that the map was originally made for Skulltag. Ever since Skulltag got DECORATE support (a method of defining actors and weapons which is more flexible and easy than DEHACKED), it lost the ability to set weapon preferences. The ones that you are given are terrible (Pistol is ranked higher than BFG and Rocket Launcher, Chaingun is ranked higher than the SSG), and you cannot change them. To avoid people having to scroll frantically to switch to the weapon they want upon spawning, Skulltag mappers are very limited in the weapons they can put in front of spawn spots. I can move the weapons more out of the way (closer to the walls, at least), and maybe change a couple of them, since the map lacks a Shotgun and Chaingun.

As for MAP02, I've gotten very mixed reviews. It's about a 50/50 split between people who absolutely love it and absolutely hate it. The general consensus among the latter is that it's cramped, has bad flow, and lacks escape routes, correct? I'm also in the works a version of that map which will have a fighting environment more diverse than just NS-EW hallways.
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DoomKid
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Map01 is great, maybe there are a few too many SSG's now that I look at it, though. I prefer having to find an SSG, but thats just me. It's still a cool map.

Wagi wrote:
As for MAP02, I've gotten very mixed reviews. It's about a 50/50 split between people who absolutely love it and absolutely hate it. The general consensus among the latter is that it's cramped, has bad flow, and lacks escape routes, correct? I'm also in the works a version of that map which will have a fighting environment more diverse than just NS-EW hallways.


The idea behind this map is brilliant in my opinion, but I think it might be a cool idea to have the areas become larger as they go lower. That way, no one can complain about the 'narrow halls' and such. Not to mention, it will add more variety. But don't change it too much.. it's got a great foundation.
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