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dewww
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheMionicDonut wrote:
This topic is a testament to where our community is.

RIP

i bet they said the exact same thing when the new testament was being put together and their favourite stories didn't get voted in
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Evolution
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Joined: 06 Sep 2005

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen brother.
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TheMionicDonut
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Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They will release a directors cut on the 1000 year anniversary.
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Tai*WarGreymon
YOU PERVERTS!!!1


Joined: 19 Apr 2002

PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

switcher wrote:
You need to hit 5 keys at once to SR-50 strafe run correctly, for example SR-50 orientation right would be hitting the run + forward + strafe right + turn right and stafe on keys at the same time.
It is really not so difficult if you plan your keys out to fit your fingers.
A way was discovered to bind several functions to one key to make SR-50 easier, but it is considered a cheat by most players.


Who, DUI? "OSers"?

Laughing
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GhoulSlayeR
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

switcher wrote:
switcher originally wrote:
And Shakal, don't you think it is a cheat when you take the time and effort to learn...


Then GhoulSlayeR, not wanting to miss an opportunity to openly brag about himself again (but not realizing that a week or 2 is actually quite a long time to take to master SR-50 Razz ) first began the "one year" urban legend all by himself when he inexplicably wrote:
Traditional Sr50 wasn't hard at all for me to learn, took me only but a week or 2 to master it rofl, not no 1+ year(s) haha.


Rexnor, after skimming over some posts in this thread and not really bothering if any of them are actually relevant or not, picks up on the phrase "not no 1+ year(s)" from the abovementioned quote and perpetuates GhoulSlayerS imaginary timetable when he wrote:
as many It-took-me-a-year-to-learn-to-use-SR50 players imply...


Now I know a lot of you don't bother reading threads before replying but really.
It's amazing how fiction evolves to fact around here.
There are no "It-took-me-a-year-to-learn-to-use-SR50" players.
Nothing's to see.
Move on.


Ah lol, openly brag? Not really, I let my game do the talking, and thats about it, but anyways, lets not distort shit now.

I remember a comment from you in another thread, kinda went like this.

Quote:
Well, let's face it hitting 1 key to do something is much easier than hitting 4 keys to do that same thing.
Before people started binding SR-50, it was an art and many players could never learn how to do it and gave up trying.
Not everyone in the community could effectively perform SR-50.
Now anyone can.
And of course, what n00b is going to frustrate himself learning the old school 4 finger manuever when he can just bind them to one key?
It took a lot of practice to learn to SR-50 in the old days.
Personally, I don't have a key for it.
But it's funny to watch a complete n00b who can't shoot past his ass turn and perform perfect SR-50.
As for the 180 turn... I think it's easier just to swing the mouse around.


Lets take a closer look.

Quote:
Before people started binding SR-50, it was an art and many players could never learn how to do it and gave up trying.


Quote:
It took a lot of practice to learn to SR-50 in the old days.


But you make a 2 week period to master it sound horrible, not like it really matters to me anyways.

You just make it sound that traditional sr50 is a pain in the ass to learn and how it was an "art". Which one could argue about since everyone is different, and there is a fine difference between learning and mastering it.

If simplified sr50 really bothers you, why not encourage players to use traditional sr50 rather than complain about it on a forum? Sounds more logical to me.

The reason I use traditional is because I feel like I have more movement control than I would by using 4 keys instead of 2. I tried the simplified version to see how it was, and it was more difficult to me. I see no set advantages over it.

Nothing else needs to be added really except for this fine line.

This is Zdaemon, not EXE. Lets the Development Team do what they want in the long run. If they want to remove it, so be it, and if they don't, so be it.

Source of quote:

http://forums.zdaemon.org/viewtopic.php?t=10904&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
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GhostlyDeath
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Joined: 28 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheating is when you have an unfair advantage over something that isn't approved...

Examples:

You have an aimbot!

- If you use it without anyone's knowledge, you are cheating.
- If you use it with someone's knowledge but that disapprove of it, you are cheating.
- If you use it with someone (includes everyone) and they say it's OK to use an aimbot, that isn't cheating.
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DuckReconMajor
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Joined: 15 Aug 2008
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone, it's Mr. Newguy.

I don't mind you guys derailing my thread (puts a smile on my face still seeing my thread up top). I just have a couple of questions about this before I pick a side in this argument and decide whether to use this shortcut. Is the shortcut an exploit? Or is macro-writing (whatever you want to call it) one of ZDaemon's features? I see people instanly put lines of text into chat so I assume there's some sort of macro function there. However, you guys are talking as if this is something that was just discovered recently which makes it sound more like an exploit.
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DarkeTiger
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

enVision wrote:
The one key SR50 thing has been branded as a cheat because it allows even the noobiest of noobs to perform whats seen as a complex manoeuvre and that detracts from the game. Things like turn180 will also be talking the walk too and anything else that is regarded as 'un-natural' movement (except freelook and jump).


I would think that freelook and the ability to jump would be natural movements, imagine if you couldn't look up and down or jump in real life? Unless you are talking about what is native to doom 2

switcher wrote:
Don't you think the use of steroids is cheating legitimate athletes out of the time and effort that they've put into honest training?
What once took a dedicated athlete three years of training can now be done by just about anyone in only one year with steroids... is that not cheating?


Its only wrong if you get caught

DuckReconMajor wrote:
Is the shortcut an exploit? Or is macro-writing (whatever you want to call it) one of ZDaemon's features? I see people instanly put lines of text into chat so I assume there's some sort of macro function there.


Hey newbie, that's just a simple bit of binded text, you can set that in-game, and if they happen to be a tard, usually they'll be muted by a little anti-spam message haha! If I can recall, you can bind text and actions in the in-game console using - bind key "command" - (e.g. bind w "+attack" or bind x "say lalala" or bind m "teamsay wicked" or if you want to reassign the key to talk to something else bind p "messagemode") also you might find something here that might help you with anything http://www.zdaemon.org/doc/documents.asp?ID=commands
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DX-Chain
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's always funny seeing people around here attempting to turn a cheating discussion into a philosophy lecture. The argument that "if the playing field is not level to all, it is no longer a fair game" is easy for people to say, but hard to defend if someone picks away at it with simple scenarios:

-Players who focus their game around ANY game mode more so than others--are they cheating because they get more training and familiarization than their counterparts?

-Players who have large monitors--are they cheating because they have a sharper view of everything in the game by way of obscene resolutions?

-Players with superior connections (because of higher income perhaps)--are they cheating because there are less dropped packets, leading to a higher hit ratio?

-Players who have been born hyperactive and have learned to control/focus this--are they cheating because they can foresee and react much sooner than others?

-Players who alias in games--are they cheating because their opponents don't have the benefit of knowing a familiar style and dealing with it accordingly?

-Players who switch teams or inherently uneven teams (by way of kicking or banning) in team games--are they cheating by arbitrarily turning the tide?

-Players who only play on a map of their choosing against all opponents--are they cheating because they are only willing to have "home court advantage?"

...And the list goes on and on and on and on... Smile

As a side note, I don't know that it's the developers' duty to dictate what the underlying nature of the game should be like. In other games and sports, the rules are tweaked to accommodate the evolution of the players and competitors, but the main nature of these is never compromised. The coders should always strive to perfect the gaming platform (infrastructure) they offer, not worry about what each player has for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Sure, there IS some credence to encouraging fair playing conditions but in this FPS game, as in the greats that have come after it, there has to be room for personalization. Compare it to a swimming race: Everybody starts at the same spot and can let it rip as soon as they hear the gun. The swimmers are allowed to shave their entire body or use advanced swimsuits (the FPS equivalent being the personalized config), but they are NOT allowed to--for the sake of example--start 50 meters ahead of anyone else or have someone drag them with a rope from the other end (the aimbot/wallhack equivalent in the FPS).

Seriously--quit bitching about this like it's the end of the world. It's a goddamn FPS game...worry about your aimbots, wallhacks, spectator ghosting, and infinite ammo/health/armor/weapons. If you wholeheartedly wanted everything to be "fair," why not make every map symmetrical in every aspect and include a ping equalizer or "damage based on ping" feature so everybody can be happy and sing the YMCA theme.
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Stealth
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Joined: 09 Nov 2004

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ping equalizer has been suggested in the past. This is when we get into unrelated problems I guess. Let's make things as fair as possible, without posing a threat to the integrity of the game.

DuckReconMajor wrote:
Hello everyone, it's Mr. Newguy.

Is the shortcut an exploit? Or is macro-writing (whatever you want to call it) one of ZDaemon's features? I see people instanly put lines of text into chat so I assume there's some sort of macro function there. However, you guys are talking as if this is something that was just discovered recently which makes it sound more like an exploit.


It's been around for a long time, but it's use has only recently been well documented. You can perform all sorts of actions with it, SR-50 just seems to be one of the cheaper uses of it. Below is an example of what happens when I press my second mouse button:

Code:
Name=+mouseaim
Command=+mlook;autoaim 0;crosshair 3;mouse_sensitivity 2.0
Name=-mouseaim
Command=-mlook;autoaim 5000;crosshair 0;centerview;mouse_sensitivity 3.5


As you can see, here is a perfectly fair and legal use of using console aliases to enable a more advanced mouselook option, something I don't use generally when playing, but when required I have one that suits me well. Again, this is something that you couldn't do in Vanilla Doom, and I wonder at times if this is as much a cheat as binding strafe-50 to a key. However, most players accept the above as a fair enhancement and we can't live in the dark ages of software at all times, so cheating is mostly determined by what other players feel. As mentioned in my previous post, narcotic use for a tournament 1on1 game, which I would consider to be competitive, ala tournament, cheating, whereas other people, might consider it an enhancement. But in answer to your question, console aliases are a perfectly normal and useful feature, but abusing them isn't. Same with many settings and tweaks, such as disabling textures (which was removed in 1.08.05)
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enVision
A.K.A. Rat-Arsed


Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Location: Lagland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe only multi-binds that involve movement (ala sr50) will be stopped and everything else will be fine. You're best checking with kilgore though.
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DevastatioN
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Joined: 31 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This argument should not be taking place on a thread to help a newcomer. Although I sympathize with your cause completely switcher, I don't think it should be labelled as a cheat until it officially becomes one. But recommending him to learn the proper way is good.

I wouldn't call it a "cheat" personally, I think it's an exploit that shouldn't be used. Cheating has a pretty clear cut term, and it's definitely not cheating. It's obvious that sr50 was prolly one of the hardest things to master in DooM, and is one of the easiest things to implement in ZDaemon. I have recently started using it to be able to compete against the players in the ZDDL, altho I can use both the bind way and the old way.

Now to answer the original question by the poster, and welcome to the ZDaemon community.

1. Mouse sensitivity is whatever you personally feel is good, and that you can make appropriate turns with. I personally use 1cm on my mousepad to do a 180 degree turn.

2. Straferunning is essential (it's actually a 38.6 degree angle, and sr50 being 45 degree) and should always be used.

3. Has already been answered in good detail.

I have a strategy guide available on my website in the DooM section at www.cdevastation.com, and I will actually be making a finished release this weekend. That may be of some help to you.
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HavocDemon
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Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Location: through hell and back

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey major

i have a thread thats in the help stickies of the help and chatter if you would like to read that. it would answer a lot of questions you may have so you wont have to ask something that hasnt been already by myself or another player.

if its hard to find for you, just press the home button or the big zdaemon forums icon at the very top left of any forum screen.
click help and chatter
then click --guides and other helpful stuff--, posten by envision himself.
mine i believe is the second post, its titled something along the lines of advice strategies questions and answers all here or something. read up and you'll get some good tips i got from some players that have been around the block.

as for your comment about -- sending chat-- in game, this is all you have to do.
go into a server, or game, whatever you want to call it, and then when youre in, press the ~ button, located to the left of your 1.
a big blackish dark screen should come up that give the games history.

BINDING is a term used meaning that you literally bind a sentence to a single key.
for example, a bind im famous for is --live and let die--, which i instantly say at gameplay by the press of a single key.

NOW, that your in the console screen, this is the command to tell console what you want to say, and what key you'll press when you want to say it.

type this, ill use the key R as example.

bind r "say -------------

and thats it. that big line right there, you yourself fill that in with whatever you want to say when pressing R. you dont have to close the quotations, it is exactly as i put it there. once you finish what you want to say, just press enter and console will save it.

you can do this on ANY KEY, BUT i wouldnt suggest binding anything to W, A, S or D of course, as those are your directional keys.

if i have stated anything wrong someone is bound to flame me and correct it, so dont worry about that.
good luck, and welcome to Zdaemon.

-Havoc
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niv
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wallrunning used to be called the north wall trick -- you could only do it in the north direction.

Certain servers are configured to let you wallrun both north and south.

I think Randy Heit introduced that into zdoom, and inertia kept it there (as with many other things).
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