ZDaemon Forum Index ZDaemon
Client/Server DOOM
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

32 bit graphics?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ZDaemon Forum Index -> ZDaemon Development
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
John845
has entered the game!


Joined: 10 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:26 am    Post subject: 32 bit graphics? Reply with quote

Sorry if this has been asked before, I did indeed do a search before posting this and found no answer unfortunatly. Anyways, what I'm trying to ask is, how come the only option to play Doom on Zdaemon is in 8 bit? 32 bit looks significantly better than 8 bit. I dont understand the reasoning behind this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EarthQuake
Wicked Sick!


Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio. Dieblieber gonna getcha!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not like you can just enable 32-bit color and have at it!
It takes a renderer rewrite. As for why there is an option to change the color depth, I have no clue. ZDaemon will always use 256 colors as long as it's a software-rendered port.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Doomination
God like!


Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Location: It's NOT lupus. Posts: 6.022 x 10^23

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EarthQuake wrote:
It's not like you can just enable 32-bit color and have at it!
It takes a renderer rewrite. As for why there is an option to change the color depth, I have no clue. ZDaemon will always use 256 colors as long as it's a software-rendered port.


lol, can you imagine it being built into your comp? Heh you'd see this gray box inside your tower with a Zdaemon sticker on it RazzP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
[n00b]Adereth
Spamming!


Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Location: Oh god, what year is this?!

PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EarthQuake wrote:
ZDaemon will always use 256 colors as long as it's a software-rendered port.


Untrue; there are plans somewhere for an eventual 24-bit version of the software renderer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
EarthQuake
Wicked Sick!


Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio. Dieblieber gonna getcha!

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[n00b]Adereth wrote:
EarthQuake wrote:
ZDaemon will always use 256 colors as long as it's a software-rendered port.


Untrue; there are plans somewhere for an eventual 24-bit version of the software renderer.


Of course there are software methods of outputting high color, but in the case of ZDaemon, it's more likely it would support OpenGL and such before this 24-bit color software renderer is finished and time is taken to implement it in ZDaemon. There is a thread on Doomworld about high color source ports, and from what I read it's a hell of a lot harder than it looks without switching to hardware rendering.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
david-gross
Unstoppable!


Joined: 27 May 2005
Location: New York... Posts: 1942

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: 32 bit graphics? Reply with quote

John845 wrote:
Sorry if this has been asked before, I did indeed do a search before posting this and found no answer unfortunatly. Anyways, what I'm trying to ask is, how come the only option to play Doom on Zdaemon is in 8 bit? 32 bit looks significantly better than 8 bit. I dont understand the reasoning behind this.


that will take well over 4 times as much CPU power to do that...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
John845
has entered the game!


Joined: 10 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont understand the Doom engine that well, but if you run Doom in single player isnt that in 32 bit by default? And even if it takes 4 times as much cpu power to do it, wouldnt our modern day pcs be able to handle it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Da_maniaC
Now with new lemon fresh scent!


Joined: 03 Jan 2004
Location: Netherlands Posts: 1337

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John845 wrote:
I dont understand the Doom engine that well, but if you run Doom in single player isnt that in 32 bit by default? And even if it takes 4 times as much cpu power to do it, wouldnt our modern day pcs be able to handle it?


If you are talking about vanilla doom, then i seriously think you should consider that 32 bit colour wasnt even known back then.

Then again, simply open the doom2.wad and look at the pallette you will see there are 256 (or 255, wtv) colours meaning it is 8 bit.

Same goes for pretty much every source port around here that is software rendered.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John845
has entered the game!


Joined: 10 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think im confusing the terms around here. My only question is why does Skulltag look much more vibrant and colorful then zdaemon? On zdaemon the colors are really bright and mundane.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EarthQuake
Wicked Sick!


Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio. Dieblieber gonna getcha!

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the newer version of Skulltag has OpenGL support now, which means its users can take advantage of their video cards. Also another thing to keep in mind, some mods/wads have modified palettes which can bring new colors (baby blues, neon greens, shades of purple, etc) which can trick the mind into thinking there might be more colors. These of course are still limited to 256 colors.
ZDaemon and most other ports still use Doom's old software renderer, which was pretty revolutionary for it's time. 256 simultaneous colors was a big step.

Frankly I see nothing wrong with the way things are now. Gives Doom some of it's charm.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Zorro
Unstoppable!


Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: Your Closet

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the low (to todays standards) amount of colors in doom kind of adds to the pixelated feeling of the world. However, having the abilities to use colors outside of the palleted would enable things such as more colors for teams/players, vibrant maps, and other stuffs. It would probably be better if it were hardware rendered though (hell, even 256 color mode).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
John845
has entered the game!


Joined: 10 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah.. so opengl is what it is..
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
[n00b]Adereth
Spamming!


Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Location: Oh god, what year is this?!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. The concept of true color (24-bit) was well established and in use by the end of the 1970s. Alpha was fully developed by 1984 in a paper called Compositing Digital Images.

2. The conversion process for the renderer to use 24-bit colour instead of 8-bit colour is mostly a matter of changing when in the rendering process the palette for the original textures and sprites is converted through a lookup table into full colour, and then implementing readers for true colour formats (such as PNG, which is really rather easy) to mix in.

3. It is far more viable than the implementation of OpenGL, and far less easy to write a wallhack for. These two factors are very significant reasons the development team is more interested in 24-bit or 32-bit sprite mode than true 3D.

4. Skulltag looks prettier because it has a higher frame rate; that's the only difference.

Your score on the Knowing Useless ZDaemon Development Trivia Challenge: 0/4.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Danni
Dominating!


Joined: 25 Oct 2003

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anything I would go for individual color maps per texture before 16 or 32 bit textures. Do you have any idea how powerful that would be? =P Perhaps a method to increase resolution also. But all this would add overhead.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xaechireon
Unstoppable!


Joined: 22 Sep 2006

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll notice Skulltag has higher ping as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
[n00b]Adereth
Spamming!


Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Location: Oh god, what year is this?!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's because they put all of their time into shiny new things instead of netcode work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Tink
Dominating!


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Location: Go Go Power RangerZ!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John845 wrote:
I dont understand the Doom engine that well, but if you run Doom in single player isnt that in 32 bit by default? And even if it takes 4 times as much cpu power to do it, wouldnt our modern day pcs be able to handle it?


i for one only play this cause mi puter cant play alot else, u put this in 36 bit my computer WILL implode. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Stealth
Gone with the wind


Joined: 09 Nov 2004

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, probably due to the fact that 36-bit has 16x the colours of 32-bit, not much more than a scanner could handle that right about now Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
[n00b]Adereth
Spamming!


Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Location: Oh god, what year is this?!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36-bit_word_length
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Tink
Dominating!


Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Location: Go Go Power RangerZ!

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

32... 36.... close enough Rolling Eyes
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ZDaemon Forum Index -> ZDaemon Development All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group