ZDaemon

[VincentPrice]

Screenshots are available here, http://www.geocities.com/alanrinch/home.html and the map is available for download in zip form here, http://www.freewebs.com/pine409/chernobyl.zip. You can get it without compression here, http://www.freewebs.com/pine409/chernobyl.wad. It is intended for 1 on 1, but a small 4-6 player FFA may work. There's also a demo of it here, http://www.freewebs.com/pine409/chernobylvincent.106.zdo.

I'm submitting it for review I suppose so if you decide to host it:

Its only one map so just MAP01.
The preferred DM flags are:

70724
Weapons stay
Same level
Kill anyone who exits the level
No Monsters
Don't Allow Jumping

65536
Allow preferred weapon order

Frag limit 30
No time limit.

Thanks for your time and once again I built it with 1 on 1 in mind far more than FFA.

[julz_d]

This is definately the best DM map I have seen in a very long time. Superrior detail and extremely uniqe design. Great gameplay and weapon placement. Absolutely flawless mapping. If you don't download this you are missing out! I have to give this a

10/10

Perfect

[Samiam]

Uploaded to here http://raider.dnsalias.com:8001/doom/userwads/chernobyl.zip

[Gollum]

wow. WOW. amazing.

I think this is the best detail I've ever seen on ANY map. there's shitloads of it, but very little -- if any -- obstructs gameplay. really really cool effects. I especially loved the 3-D pipe effects.. never seen that before. it adds tons of realism.

at first while roaming around the map it didn't seem like it could be a practical 1on1 map.. but as I kept strafing around (seemed as if something kept me from exiting ), it got better and better. it seems like it'd make for an awesome 1on1. you planned all weapons placement perfectly, it seems. I really don't see any flaws in weapon placement.

it's a bit dark for my tastes, but I'm beginning to suspect we'll never see a brighter map from you.

this in my opinion raises the standard for modern 1on1 maps.

9.5/10

seriously man, this map just made my fucking morning.

[excelblue]

This map could of easily been done using the doom in doom format as there is nothing in this map that can't be done in the doom in doom format. However, other than that, there's too much detail and changes in heights. Many of the verticies do not fall properly on the grid when it could have easily done that. In addition, the map is a bit hard to navigate with all the details getting in the way like gothic99.

Since the weapons are placed in a weird way, it often requires weird ways to get to a few things. The general flow is a set of circles connected and linked to each other. The exit was the bad part as it was not clearly marked. There were clearly too much barrels there anyways. Adding many sectors just for looks and an unmarked exit is going over, and is a practice to be avoided. Then, if you were in zdoom format (which you were), you should at least made the sectors cause instant death, but not exit. Either way, the sector should have at least some type of damage.

Overall: 5/10

It's just a map of looks. Technicalities suck. However, the gameplay is OK.

[VincentPrice]

In reference to Excel, the demo I linked to it shows me doing a lot of those map tricks with relative ease and speed (and where I slowed down it was to demonstrate what I was doing more clearly). I made the gameplay on the map "tighter" (turns, movements, areas) than most because to me that increases the skill factor. The barrels at the exit can be set off by shooting them from the door that is left ajar and they were placed there as an alarm for someone trying to hide in the exit door, or a mine for someone who is hiding. And generally as we learned from d2map01 you can normally only do one exit hide a game, so one time mines are plenty. Also, the map is intended for 1 on 1, and any map of that category, the players make it their business to know the map, how the features function including the exit. If it was FFA oriented, I could understand the necessity of a more obvious exit, but in 1 on 1 if someone gets killed in there one time because of the dm flag that does it, that will probably be their last and if they like the map and continue playing it I doubt they would ever get caught in it again, I see that as a pretty minor price to pay. I'm not saying this in defense against excel's opinions on the map, they are the opinions he came too and so be it, but I am addressing at least some of them in a different light. Also the demo demonstrates most of the more unusual map features I included and their purposes in terms of gameplay.

- Vincent

Thanks to everyone who's reviewed it so far I appreciate the feedback whether good or bad. Although generally my view on critics is that a good portion of them spend their time undermining the very people that give them their jobs in the first place, it is a fairly amusing dichotomy.

[hobomaster22]

I wouldnt go as far as saying theres too much detail, or even a lot for that matter. Intereting idea, but as excelblue said, there doesnt appear to be much for gameplay. The movement maybe ackward, especially getting bfg. It also seems too dark and at least lacking light sources, but hitting F11 a few times can fix that. You should also work on using a grid, I dont think i saw a section of the map that was actually on it. I agree with excel blue, 5/10.

Edit: I also found a lot of unclosed sectors in the map, you should watch more for those.

[VincentPrice]

[Da_maniaC]

[BadKist2]

[Da_maniaC]

He was just making it sound like, they wouldnt in ZDaemon.

[excelblue]

Are the light transfers really needed?

[hobomaster22]

[Da_maniaC]

When someone refers to ZDOOM, i think they are talking about ZDOOM with 2.xx Capabilities.

When someone refers to ZDaemon, i think they are talking about ZDOOM with 1.23 Capabilities.

See there's a difference between them.
And no need to tell me something like "ZDaemon = ZDoom" since if i still didnt know that i would not be here.

[romeo (dwango)]

People fear things that they cannot conquer.
I suspect that if the regular mappers here would of done this, in there minds it would of been bad ass.

Good job Vince.

[VincentPrice]

[killingblair]

Killingblair’s review

Gameplay: The best gameplay in a deathmatch wad that I’ve seen in years. Excellent flow and use of obstacles to add some exhilaration to the gameplay. The only thing I didn’t like is that you put an exit that could have been easily mistaken for another part of the level. The exit sign is easily not noticed.

Gameplay: 9/10

Detail: Holy God where do I start? Well, as gollum said, I also liked the 3-d pipe effects. What also caught my eye was the nukage fall trickling down into a river. I liked that a lot. You also made good use of crates and lights and other things that are hard to find in maps now-a-days. I’m sure I’ve missed some parts there’s so much detail!

Detail: 10/10

Item Placement: Item placement was good, not great but good. The BFG was fairly easy to get; however, I liked how you “hid” the Plasma Gun. You used techno lights in all the right places, which is always a plus. I just wished that you put more deathmatch starts.

Item Placement: 8/10

Textures/Flats: This is the only place where I’m going to give a bad grade. There were texture misalignments in some crates which threw be back into reality, which is not a good thing. Please fix them

Textures/Flats: 7/10

Music: The music really fit into the map really well, I liked it.

Music: 9/10

Errors: Despite the size of the level, nope no errors, pat yourself on the back you perfectionist you

Errors: 10/10

My 2 ¢: Fix those misalignments and this map will be God!

Overall: 8/10

I’m out

~killingblair

[Samiam]

Review by Rev_Heretic

[VincentPrice]

Thanks for reviewing it Heretic, and playing it Samiam/Heretic >). I know I didn't get a "high score" but I do like how Heretic reviewed it...which doesn't mean I agree with everything but that was a quite fair and intelligent review. I probably shouldn't ask, but I'm just curious if it was noticed, but there's a really morbid joke in that wad...its the interrelation between the title screen and exit area...it has to do with inhuman imp death and really humane human death...>) Don't bother looking into it if you're not interested, its a really politically incorrect joke, but I thought it was funny. If you go past the walk over exit in spectator mode thats the 2nd part of joke, first part being title screen.

EDIT: And now for a role reversal!

My review of Rev Heretic's review of Chernobyl:

His comments in terms of gameplay were in my opinion, and I've ran around that map more than anyone, right on the mark.

His comments on texture choice were more rooted in individual taste then a standard by which all must abide but...that can't really be helped when judging something on aesthetics (or even gameplay wise, but in that realm there's a lot more give on what are generally accepted standards), Personally I like maps dark, and I liked my texturing as it conveyed the theme, but once again I don't know how much that affects the score so I have no way to make a judgement call on this.

I think his presentation of what the map was in totality was right on the mark. As the author I felt like his review very accurately described all aspects of the map. Which is important as a review is a means of getting the map out to the public.

I give his review a 8/10. Its not overly harsh in its criticism, and was highly accurate overall. I dispute him on the ugly textures, I like the way they look and its supposed to look more real then appealing (for doom anyway). And the wafer thin wall I just kept that way because I liked how that looked plus it kept it out of the way for the armor "walkway."

Great review, heretic doesn't seem like a stubborn ass about how a map HAS to be, and was quite fair in his judgement of it. Furthermore, his review was devoid of technicality statements. If I cared a lot about the out of 10 ranking, and if it was judged by his aesthetic tastes predominantly, then I would definitely give a worse score for the review, but I really didn't get that impression.

Thanks once again for playing/reviewing it.

Peace

[DUI] Vincent

Oh yeah and the screenshot for it was quite nice, so that's a plus too. And although I know it hurt I'm sure Samiam just spawned again anyway. :p Good job ZDReview.

[Samiam]

We had a fun game in there, Heretic had a slight advantage as he had spent time looking round the map prior to us playing it, whereas I hadn't had time, it didn't take me long to get into the tactics and stop looking at everything hehe. I think Heretic summed it up well with this comment 'either fans or enemies and no inbetween' regarding the style of it, ie darkness and textures. Also after our 1v1 game, he played it 3 times as a 4 player FFA, so it had a decent play testing in that mode.

I'm glad you like the review, i'm really happy with it too. Afaik he didn't read this thread before reviewing, so had no pre-conceptions of the map, which is how he prefers it.

Thanks for the review of the reviewer, as for the score, as this was his first review it's hard to judge on the number alone as everyone has their own scale and I'm glad you have looked beyond that