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Some clarifications regarding the IDL and other leagues

 
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Kilgore
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Up the river

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:47 am    Post subject: Some clarifications regarding the IDL and other leagues Reply with quote

Some days ago I posted a message on the first yoyo thread explaining our reasons for the ralphis ban. Given that the same individual is involved in running the IDL, I made the assumption that the league was born as a reaction to the ban. Chaindude contacted me and said that the league was born out of a different dynamic:

Chaindude wrote:
It's fair to say that the league was born due to the fact that clan play was dead and overrated. Too many clans were scared to play one another or would never play unless it was on their terms. With this league, we thought, those factors would be neutralized and players could join without some fear of letting their clan down--only focusing on winning and building their skills.

I have no reason to doubt that or quarrel about it. Things can happen for a variety of reasons. I'll take Chaindude's word for it.

Next thing up is the accusation by some IDL officials that ZDaemon doesn't support the league. The problem is, support cannot be a one-way street. Let's not kid ourselves here: if a league runs on non-public servers, then that league is doing a favor to itself: NOT to ZDaemon. And promoting that league would be detrimental to the public games. So, if a league/tournament/whatever wants support from ZDaemon, then it cannot run on hidden servers.

But what would "ZDaemon support" mean? at a minimum, it would include:
  • You probably heard that there is a new web site coming up; this web site will get launched soon after the next software release (because our primary endeavor is making game software: not web sites). In that site, there will be blog sections; any postings in there will appear right along any other ZDaemon news on an RSS newsfeed. That feed will be available either through normal RSS readers, or through a special tab inside ZLauncher. The blog sections would be available to interested team members as well as other parties that contribute to ZDaemon and we'd like to reciprocate: leagues (such as ZDDL, ECL and even IDL if it runs on public servers) and tournaments come to mind, but any worthwhile project will be eligible for such a slot.

  • The new web site has a marquee area near the top of the page where it shows the last few news items; between the list displays, we could put (reasonably sized) promotions of upcoming events.

  • You've probably seen the ZDIRC notifications about ZDS; I'm sure it could be arranged to notify people of other events too.
There may be more items that we can think about support: this is only the list of items that comes to mind at the moment.

Who would be eligible for such a support? the obvious candidates would be tournaments, leagues, special sessions or events, etc. This mechanism is not intended for clan use (there is something else coming up about clans; just be patient folks) or maps/mods (there will be other mechanisms for those too). One prerequisite would be the prominence / relevance to the ZDaemon player base; the other prerequisite would be normal "guest" rules, ie., if ZDaemon supports me and gives me space in its own web site to promote my project, then it's generally understood that I should not attack/insult ZDaemon. If this requirement is not clear enough and you want a detailed legal description about acceptable use, then, please, let's not waste our time. It's clear that it won't work.
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Eagle-Eye
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Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: League Master Clan: .CI.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't wait for these features, will help the many league ideas I have expand into reality! Great work, team!
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switcher
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Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Location: DUI All The Way

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Making IDL servers public would also place them under the influence of the ZDaemon banlist.
This would have the duel effect of excluding banned players while at the same time making the league accessible to the ZDaemon community in general.
Plus IDL would get ZDaemon's awesome support.
That sounds like a great deal.
Since the IDL was not created to evade ZDaemon bans, nor draw it's players away,
why not come out from the shadows and into the mainstream of ZDaemon society?Wink
I wonder what the response will be? Twisted Evil


Last edited by switcher on Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Doom2pro
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Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Location: Glens Falls, NY. USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem with ZDaemon supporting IDL, it's a great system that reminds me a lot of Baseball/Football Statistics.

And I have to agree 100% with Kilgore, in that having the servers hidden or private tends to make it appear as if there are less players playing ZDaemon than say "other" online doom ports, and it does no service to ZDaemon leaving them that way.

I feel that having IDL servers "go public" would be a pretty good day for both IDL and ZDaemon.

Personally up until recently, without seeing any IDL servers on the ZDaemon "Master List" I didn't even know that IDL even used ZDaemon as it's official port, since they were so hidden. After having some private CTF games on the IDL servers, I find it a shame that such a good system is being held behind the scenes.

Anyway, that's my two cents.
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Fastidious
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Joined: 08 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've love to see the IDL go public but at the same time I'm not sure it'd work. The IDL community is used to the IDL forums for instance where we can post pretty much anything we like. If the IDL blog or whatever would probably end up getting posts removed on it or having the comments moderated pretty heavily if not the actual blog content itself. I guess the IDL could have a "light" version of the blog for public consumption then have the real action happen at the IDL forums but that seems a bit odd.
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Doom2pro
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Joined: 03 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fastidious wrote:
I've love to see the IDL go public but at the same time I'm not sure it'd work. The IDL community is used to the IDL forums for instance where we can post pretty much anything we like. If the IDL blog or whatever would probably end up getting posts removed on it or having the comments moderated pretty heavily if not the actual blog content itself. I guess the IDL could have a "light" version of the blog for public consumption then have the real action happen at the IDL forums but that seems a bit odd.


Nobody said they had to use our forums, by "going public" as in publicly advertised IDL servers visible on the "Master List". If they don't want to participate in the new website's blogs and other events, that's up to them. Same goes for any other league out there.
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[DA]DarthBane
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Joined: 10 May 2009
Location: Animal-

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope that more players join IDL. When idl goes on zd master server Smile .
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_Beast_
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Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Location: Clan [R]enegad3s

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we will see what the IDL administration does. Anyway it goes I support the IDL as I have had many great experiences their.

I can only hope and wish that some people have a change of heart and a meeting of the minds for the zdstack stats mechanism.

Where are the Rampage servers?

System got corrupted after a bad electrical event, I am rebuilding it when I get time but time is limited do to actual work projects like configuring my new Cisco 2960S 10 gig links. Speaking of that I will once again cut out as many hops as possible on the server link and limit vlans to the stack it sits in to allow the best connection possible. I will also be adding 1 or 2 people to help manage the server once I get it back running.

The new name will be ChaosCore, which is a [R] funded mapping group. An area will be made available for people to submit requests and view up coming events. This set of servers will offer IDL servers hopefully going forward they will be public so others who are new can get some knowledge from the hardcore ctf players who play in this league. From my experience we have turned a few novices into above average players so making it public would increase the competitiveness of the community.

Get ready for some new CTF packs and customized wads from the ChaosCore team!!! Also if you would like to help out on future mapping projects Caboose aka Ros King is taking applications.
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cha0tix
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Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Location: Chicago, IL Hangout: #DarkAlley @ OFTC

PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDL going public is an old, unimplemented idea.
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Empyre
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Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know much about IDL, but from what I've read in recent posts, it was founded (or cofounded) by Ralhpis. If he is still running it, I doubt he would want it on the master servers because then he would be unable to join his own league's servers.

Unbanning Ralphis would remove that obstacle. If he has really grown up, as claimed, then you shouldn't have any more problems from him. To be fair, it would have to be with a clean slate. That means no banning hm for something that you wouldn't ban someone else for. If he does something that you would ban somebody else for, then ban him again, and you can honestly say you gave him a second chance.

If Ralphis is no longer associated with IDL, that's very different then. Nevermind!
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Thadeuss
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Location: www.areashiftybun.com

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evo I deleted your comment. The reason being that the whole IDL and ZD issue is quite a volatile one. Everybody on all sides are passionate about their positions because it is something they really care about.

I understand you, like many others might have strong feelings about it, but lets try and keep it civil so the conversation can be had. At least this way people can get off their chest how they feel.
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Evolution
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Joined: 06 Sep 2005

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol.
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dewww
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

switcher wrote:
The silence here is deafening.
I guess this just shows that Kilgore's first impression of IDL was correct;
It is nothing more than a haven for the bunch of low life thugs who tried to shut ZDaemon down and ruin the personal lives if it's administrators.

fuck off with thread necromancy, thanks
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Thadeuss
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I don't think it's a crime to bump a thread, especially this one that addresses an important issue.

I wouldn't go as far as to call Ralphis a low life, but then I don't have much experience of talking to him. The only experience I do have is of joining the UD channel ages ago and him banning me lol. For all I know he may be a decent guy, there are a lot of very good players and cool people who are involved with the IDL, but I have to say if Ralphis did to me what he did to Kilgore, I'd probably go one further and ban any advertising of his tournaments on something that I ran.

At least Kilgore lets the IDL advertise here and lets the players here discuss it, something I'm not sure many people here would be as forgiving as to allow.


Just to remain a little impartial Switch, I deleted your response as well as it might encourage other angrier posts about it.
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mikehail
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

switcher made a rational argument though! Here is a similar one, everybody in DUI is extremely gay and dumb unless they respond and tell me otherwise by the time I post this response. I seem to have proven what we already knew with unfathomably deep logical reasoning and at the same time I added valuable input to this discussion because DUI is quite bad at doom in general and they should all join IDL in order to become more proficient at it. Seeing as how I have no relation with DUI except for the fact I know they were some scumbag clan a while back that wasn't very good, I have a position about as strong as switcher's when it comes to making defining statements about the group as a whole. But I haven't made anything up yet like he has, so give me a second, I can distinctly remember DUI beating a czech clan by the name of =66=!

Of course, there is nothing more civil than telling tall tales about the IDL bogeyman and attempting to stir up ill-will towards a dedicated section of the community, the overwhelming majority with I would say is in extremely good standing with ZDaemon as a whole. Here I thought canadians were the most polite people in the world Rolling Eyes


On topic, this has not been discussed by the board at this time due to some member absences, hopefully we will address this issue soon. Then a private, mature discussion can be opened between the two parties without any bitter old men shaking their canes and yelling at people to stay off the grass of the quaint public park we all share together while grown ups are trying to speak Smile
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Thadeuss
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Location: www.areashiftybun.com

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I deleted the comment about Switcher's son. I think that's a low blow Mike that is only going to be retaliated against.
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mikehail
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love you thad, in the strongest non gay way a man can love another man
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Thadeuss
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn I was hoping it would be in the gayest possible way.
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