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International Doom League Servers Wanted
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Ladna
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Joined: 26 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:52 am    Post subject: International Doom League Servers Wanted Reply with quote

Hey server admins. The IDL recently allowed games to be played on servers other than TT, so we're looking for gracious server admins that are interested in hosting IDL games. I've heard the most demand for east-coast servers, but we have quite a few European, Mexican, Canadian and west/south-west US players as well! Here's a couple caveats:

Must be a reasonably high-quality server

This means it has to be hosted in a datacenter, and can't be running other things like databases. TT itself doesn't even host its WADs on the same machine as the zserv processes, but I don't think you have to go that far. To be clear, I personally don't mind if the server is hosted in Vietnam (although I doubt players will choose to play on it), as long as it is hosted in a proper facility.

Must install ZDStack

The IDL uses ZDStack for statistics collection. This will make a database connection to a totally separate database server. When we were going to use Red Nexus, Killingblair opted to just create an 'idl' user account for me so I could handle it myself, but that's not necessary.

ZDStack is also used for server management over JSON/XML-RPC, and the IDL needs access to that, as well as RCON.

Servers must be unadvertised, and there must be 4 of them

The way IDL teams are set up, it's possible that all teams are practicing at the same time. It's not really as rare as you think, especially when games are scheduled close to each other. We just label them A, B, C and D, but it gets a little trickier during playoffs. Additionally there are some IDL players that are still banned, so (unfortunately) IDL servers cannot be advertised on the master.

Hosting a Private CTF server is encouraged!

In order for all players to get used to your server, it would be extremely helpful if you hosted a Private CTF server as well.

If you are interested, let an IDL admin (Mantis-X, Shadow_Ghost, Ralphis, Goatface, mikehail or Ladna) know. We're usually on IRC at irc.quakenet.org #idl, and you can e-mail me at ladna@intldoomleague.net. Thanks!
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Cybershark
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG support these guys!

And y'know, if any US hosts feel like helping us out with ZDS every Saturday then that would be really swell too, because we're kinda screwed for a host at the moment Crying or Very sad
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Lyfe
Puts the 'Z' in ZDaemon


Joined: 29 May 2002

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you're not getting my support on two parts:

1- untrusted f'ing software.
2- private servers to avoid the ban list.


ZDS on the other hand.. You should have just said something.
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Ladna
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Joined: 26 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lyfe wrote:
Well, you're not getting my support on two parts


I was asking for help, not criticism. If you don't want to support IDL that's fine, but please don't turn this thread into a lame argument.

Lyfe wrote:
1- untrusted f'ing software.


ZDStack is fully open source. You can see the code here. It's really not that big, and it's in Python. Compared with ZDaemon, which is fully closed source, and its development team, a member of whom released a fake cheat that deleted personal property from players' machines, I feel like ZDStack is way more trustworthy.

Lyfe wrote:
2- private servers to avoid the ban list.


There's no reason the ZDaemon administration should decide who we play with. The master is theirs and that's fine, but our league is our league, and we'll make those decisions ourselves. Just like your servers are your servers and you can make your own decisions as well.

And actually, another good reason to not advertise servers is that ZDaemon forces the values of certain options when the servers are advertised. Specifically spam_window and spam_limit, which can actually cause problems with voting (DOH!). Our reasons really aren't political so much as pragmatic.

===

I guess I also want to emphasize that I really think IDL is good for the community. We really enjoy playing ZDaemon, and many of us have put serious time and effort into making the experience even more enjoyable. It's a shame that politics and general ZDaemon weirdness keep us segregated, because IDL is probably the most vibrant of all ZDaemon's player groups. Give us a chance Very Happy .
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DX-Chain
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Location: www.altdeath.com

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lyfe wrote:
1- untrusted f'ing software.


The source code to ZDStack is freely available for viewing, downloading, or any other sort of scrutiny you can think of. Why else would it be available on Google Project Hosting? You can click on the "ZDStack" title in Ladna's original post or you can simply hover the cursor over the link and check your browser's status bar to see where it leads you to Smile

In fact, it would be nice if features in ZDStack had been/would be implemented into ZDaemon at some point in time, particularly the collection of statistics. Just take a look at a common match results page here:

http://www.intldoomleague.org/stats/games/22

Without this alleged "untrusted f'in software," things like these would not be a reality in ZDaemon. That's not even mentioning the nifty way in which ZDStack helps in server management.


Last edited by DX-Chain on Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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SuperNova
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Joined: 12 May 2008
Location: Toledo, OH, Clan: >AC<

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, IDL is $$$. If more community members were involved, I think it may keep some newer players more interested as well..
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mikehail
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Joined: 24 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does cybershark love anything that isn't great?!? It is strange how some people come across so negatively when others commit time and resources to making doom more fun and more awesome, sorta sad in a way too Sad
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Lyfe
Puts the 'Z' in ZDaemon


Joined: 29 May 2002

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that'll teach me to jump the gun and not review simple things like zdstack. Open mouth, insert foot.

Regardless, #2 still stands.

And quite frankly, I'd say that for a lot of server operators it's actually a major factor: Visibility. Before you doubt that that's important, or suggest that it gets visibility with the IDL, think about it for a second. How many ZDaemon players even know about IDL? I only know because someone was commenting about something stupid in regards to IDL.
Anyway, back to the visibility argument: Just look at any serverlist out there (not just zdaemon's, although it follows this argument). How many servers out there love to hit the top of the server lists by trickery of names. Putting spaces or other symbols in the front, to show up first on an alphabetical list. It's all about visibility.


Quite frankly, I think IDL can be good for the community, but I also think it should resolve it's issues with the staff regarding bans. I'm willing to bet that there was either no conversation on it, or one very very short one. Course, with a guy that abused some trust (albiet ages ago) on the admin team, I'm almost willing to bet that you never even considered asking. I could be mistaken, as I was rather on hiatus while IDL was being formed.

Thinking of visibility, the concept of having the IDL servers visible should probably also be of importance to you, as it would show a non-IDL player just how big you are, not to mention just making them aware of you. Lets be honest, not everyone reads the forums. Hell, I'm shocked I did.

(Side note: person in question on trust issues: I'm willing to bet you don't even know why I was mad at you, because I have different reasons than the rest of the zdaemon admin team. Regardless, it's deserved. But that's another conversation, and one probably best left to 1on1 discussion. Everyone always knew I was a strange person.)
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MetalBlack
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if some of the IDL players are public offenders I dont recall any major problems if any problems at all from them during my time in IDL. Sure there are debates and arguments but IDL is managed very well and players have a fairly decent amount of respect for each other. Whatever some of them may have done in the past Im sure they have changed and matured somewhat. I know ZD trys to uphold the law with bans and what not but what about putting some of these detainee's on parole and see if they can fit in todays zd society?
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Ladna
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Joined: 26 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've got a great point about visibility Lyfe, it's something we struggle with in the IDL all the time. We try to maintain an active forum presence, and use the MOTD on TotalTrash to advertise, but you're right, I still think the majority of ZDaemon players aren't aware of IDL at all. We could also, uh, maybe use a mention in the ZDIRC topic and a link on www.zdaemon.org Cool . But Chaindude's said many times that the best IDL advertising would be advertised servers that people can see in the launcher, and I think all of us agree with him.

As far as I know, we're still in the middle of arrangements for one of our banned players to play on advertised IDL servers (no other public servers). There's still things to talk about, but I think this season he's the only IDL member on the banlist so it might be possible that IDL goes advertised if we can work this out. We can probably also work around 1 player and just have 1 unadvertised server on TT, so maybe the IDL administration will have to take a look at that requirement and decide what to do about it.

METALBLACK also makes a good point that most of our players are a lot more mature than they used to be, I know I am at least. Yeah we argue pretty heavily from time to time (see http://forums.intldoomleague.org in the IDL Winter 2010 section if you're curious), but I think that's actually part of the fun for some players, and I personally think it's good for the league. Old rivals become teammates, new players become top players, new friendships are formed, it's really interesting how IDL has kind of forced players to get along in the spirit of competition and winning - and I think this has made our players grow in many ways.

Anyway, on with the show! We would love for any server admin to host IDL servers as long as they're comfortable with the requirements in the OP! OGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGGOGOGOGGGGOGOO!
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DX-Chain
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Joined: 24 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The visibility argument is actually a good one, and (as plenty of IDL community members know) especially one that I have personally vouched for. The best way to advertise the popularity of the league is having two packed-to-the-brim servers on the master whenever a casual player fires up IDE or Zlauncher. There is really no good reason to sacrifice this over letting two people (at best) play--hell, I even suggested one of the official servers could be advertised while the other remains private. (This was in a discussion related to moving the league forward--I don't hold ill will towards Ralphis or any of his banned friends, aside from the harmless fat joke).

I really wish things could be different, because I know from a fact that people can sort their shit out if they stop acting like they're 12 years old. Seriously--it's not as if unbanning Ralphis will suddenly destroy ZDaemon or bring forth the end of the world or anything. Besides, a good chunk of the community from the time he was banned isn't even around anymore, so to the newer breed of players, the fact that Ralphis has been banned (for what, over 6 or so years?) just looks like a petty grudge.

At any rate, the IDL has probably been the best thing to happen to ZD. It has had amazing staying power and the players involved in it have contributed a lot of valuable assets to the ZD community at large (like Ladna, with ZDStack, and plenty of new feature ideas from us for the last 3+ years that made it into ZD). Smile
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LordBritish
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Joined: 26 May 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically we're gr8 and deserve whatever we want. So chop chop!
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Lyfe
Puts the 'Z' in ZDaemon


Joined: 29 May 2002

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LordBritish wrote:
Basically we're gr8 and deserve whatever we want. So chop chop!

*chops off LordBritish's hand.*
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NoStar
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Joined: 08 Nov 2007

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lyfe wrote:

Quite frankly, I think IDL can be good for the community, but I also think it should resolve it's issues with the staff regarding bans. I'm willing to bet that there was either no conversation on it, or one very very short one. Course, with a guy that abused some trust (albiet ages ago) on the admin team, I'm almost willing to bet that you never even considered asking. I could be mistaken, as I was rather on hiatus while IDL was being formed.


I have had numerous conversations with the ZD staff regarding server advertisement and the issue of individuals with long standing bans. Kilgore has been very reasonable throughout these conversations, accommodating as best he felt he could. I have had basically zero luck getting in contact with Raider, and in my own failing, sort of gave up the effort after a few un-returned pms. I've taken this opportunity to renew that effort.

There have been a number of attempts to bring IDL into clearer view for this community. Despite some longstanding grievances, IDL has managed to advertise on both the ZDforums and the ZDIRC network without contempt or reproach. We actually have our act pretty together.

Back on topic though. Server operators (Unfy, Dwango, Rampage, Dallas, and whatever Shinobi calls his servers from week to week) we are looking for any of you to step up and be a part of this league. If you have questions you can find most of the IDL community on irc.quakenet.org in #idl. Look for Ladna!
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RTB
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Joined: 05 Jul 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would be fun to get some IDL servers for europe. But it's still just as fun in american anyway. IDLs goooooooooooooooooooooood
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Ladna
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Joined: 26 Jul 2008

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I fully support the chopping of LordBritish's perverted hands.
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Xyltol
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Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm the [Dallas|TX] server Admin and I really don't mind helping IDL or ZDS with whatever..just need to setup ZDStack for IDL and preferrably a PM or email (xyltol@gmail.com) with settings and/or requirements and WAD.

Also with ZDStack do I have to setup some sort of database for you guys or can I just use my own webservices and link you to it?
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Solar_Flare
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Joined: 01 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xyltol, it would be best to get on quakenet.org #idl and talk to lardna about how exactly everything should be set up. Smile
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Xyltol
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Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not much of an IRC guy, and besides discussing on the forum will answer all questions for future hosts that may want to do it as well Smile
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Ladna
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a PostgreSQL database server setup that holds all the stats, so you wouldn't need to setup a DB yourself, or hook it into your existing setup. All that is taken care of by ZDStack and intldoomleague.org.

I'll put up a ZDStack config when I get a chance, it's a little late tonight - maybe tomorrow. I've also got some ZDStack things to tighten up (documentation, example config files, etc.). The work of an admin is never done Wink .

Thanks a lot for your offer, I'll be in touch soon.
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