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[Username] Died Behavior Change

 
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soncdoommario
Unstoppable!


Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Location: Attleboro, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: [Username] Died Behavior Change Reply with quote

After my nice talk with Kilgore last night, I guess I'll throw this in too.

-When you fire a rocket/cell and die, and the rocket/cell kills somebody before you decide to respawn, you get credit for the frag.
-When you fire a rocket/cell and die, and the rocket/cell kills somebody AFTER you decide to respawn, the person would die, but you would not get credit for the frag or anything. The message that would pop up in game would just be [Username] Died.

The latter behavior was changed with the release of 1.08.06 IIRC. Now, when the latter behavior occurs and you see the message [Username] Died, the death gets treated as a suicide, aka, you lose a frag, and no longer a simple death. This can get annoying rather fast and get you into a hole quickly if you're unlucky.

Was this changed for a reason? I know that in some CTF games that you get the message [username] died if you fall into a pit or something, but in DM, it's not always a suicide. Would there be a way to distinguish the two ro something?

Thanks.
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Kilgore
Air Cavalry


Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Up the river

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you please clarify it? it would be better if you described it in terms of "shooter" / "victim" (who gets a frag, or doesn't, who gets a suicide, etc), rather than the generic "you".
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DoomerMrT
Dominating!


Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Location: http://destiny-server.ath.cx/forums/

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-When the shooter fires a projectile and die while the projectile is still in flight AND the shooter doesn't respawn AND the projectile kills the victim -> the shooter will be credited with a frag.

-When the shooter fires a projectile and die while the projectile is still in flight AND the shooter respawns AND after respawning the projectile kills the victim -> it will simply print "Victim died." and the shooter doesn't get a frag.
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EarthQuake
Wicked Sick!


Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio. Dieblieber gonna getcha!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When a player respawns, his or her attacks no longer belong to that player, so frags/kills will not get counted and it's possible to kill yourself.

This is the way the original Doom behaved, and I don't see what's so damning about this behavior. It will certainly impact deathmatch in ZDaemon, especially 1-on-1's. The behavior introduces a bit more strategy involved with when and when not to respawn. You respawn, you lose your frag. I personally don't think this should be touched, at least for deathmatch-based game modes (including CTF).

The only thing I would consider fixing here is the obituary message, but even that might be difficult, as you would have to track which projectile/attack belongs to which player for a longer amount of time.
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Eagle-Eye
God like!


Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Location: League Master Clan: .CI.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Especially with BFG, all the 'decent' players know to remain fragged without respawning until they know their bfg has finished its magic Wink
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soncdoommario
Unstoppable!


Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Location: Attleboro, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DoomerMrT wrote:
-When the shooter fires a projectile and die while the projectile is still in flight AND the shooter doesn't respawn AND the projectile kills the victim -> the shooter will be credited with a frag.

-When the shooter fires a projectile and die while the projectile is still in flight AND the shooter respawns AND after respawning the projectile kills the victim -> it will simply print "Victim died." and the shooter doesn't get a frag.


DoomerMrT supplied the original behaviors, but event #2 that he listed is now like this in recent versions of ZDaemon:

-When the shooter fires a projectile and die while the projectile is still in flight AND the shooter respawns AND after respawning the projectile kills the victim -> it will simply print "Victim died." and the shooter doesn't get a frag. Also, the victim under "Victim died" will be treated as a suicide, not only picking up a death but losing a frag in the process for a projecticle that wasn't even his or her fault - the victim has to suffer by losing a frag because of the shooter's decision to spawn before the projectile has killed the victim.

See where I'm going with this?

The best way to reproduce this is to take a friend and go into a DM. Be sure to have the shooter at a low enough health. When the shooter fires the rocket, the victim will need to kill the shooter before the rocket takes the victim out. The shooter must respawn before the rocket kill the victim. The victim will originally have 1 frag for killing the shooter, but because of the rocket killing the victim AFTER the shooter respawns, it will be treated as a suicide and the victim will be reduced to 0 frags, just as the shooter, even though the victim never committed suicide.

This is my best way to explain this with text. If I can get a demo up, it would clear it up a LOT. Just need to find a buddy willing to do this.
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EarthQuake
Wicked Sick!


Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio. Dieblieber gonna getcha!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the "lost" projectile is counting as a suicide to the victim, then yes, something is wrong here. Catch me on IRC and I'll help with a demo.
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soncdoommario
Unstoppable!


Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Location: Attleboro, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, here's a demo where I tried to do this as best as possible. If it expires, let me know (demo BTW is Doom2 Map01).

http://www.filesavr.com/2009-09-30150936108
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Kilgore
Air Cavalry


Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Up the river

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way DoomerMrT described it, is the way I know it to work and I have no intention of changing that (same arguments as EQ and Nero). What you're saying now is... when the "unowned" rocket/whatever hits someone, the death counts as a suicide (which it shouldn't: only as a death). OK.. we'll try to fix that.
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Kilgore
Air Cavalry


Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Up the river

PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the test wad Madgunner; fixed and should appear on the next public release.
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soncdoommario
Unstoppable!


Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Location: Attleboro, Massachusetts

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Want to know if I can "re-open" this bug. I've been playing FFA on the 1.09 beta servers and [username] died still treats the death as a suicide by an "unowned' projecticle.

This doesn't appear in the changelog either.

Thanks.
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spacepirate
AssPants


Joined: 25 Jan 2005
Location: que pasa

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eagle-Eye wrote:
Especially with BFG, all the 'decent' players know to remain fragged without respawning until they know their bfg has finished its magic Wink


This is a good point.
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Body-Guard
Unstoppable!


Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Location: Hungary

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played some DM today and got hit by 'unowned' rockets several times and they were considered suicides. So this is still present.
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Kilgore
Air Cavalry


Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Up the river

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. sorry for the misquote above: this behavior will stay.
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