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Plasma grab

 
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Barbapapa
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Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Schweden

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: Plasma grab Reply with quote

I want to implement teh classic map01 bump-into-pedestal plasma grab thingy in one of my maps. I've made an exact copy of the pedestal (impassable though) between the bases, but I can only grab the plasma from the red base (east) while facing south. Confused I'm no expert at map01, but I'm sure you can grab it from more than one direction there? I'm probably wrong but I need to know if I have to remove this piece of pedestal from the map.
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Doomination
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Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Location: It's NOT lupus. Posts: 6.022 x 10^23

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not entirely sure how it works, but I think when you bump the platform a little bit of the character (if you will) goes into the pedestal and allows you to grab it.

To put it into your map, just copy and paste the pedestal into your map and edit it as you wish.
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Cybershark
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Joined: 05 Jan 2005

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, the dimensions have to be right and it depends on some DMFLAGs.
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[n00b]Adereth
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Joined: 16 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In other words, check your dmflags. Copy 'em from a DUI server or something, then alter them as much as you feel like without disturbing the plasma bump. OS Movement and OS Z Movement are probably the most influential, though I'm not certain.
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Kilgore
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Up the river

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OS Movement only; Z movement is unrelated to that.
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enVision
A.K.A. Rat-Arsed


Joined: 13 Dec 2002
Location: Lagland

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anything, turning of OS movement should make it easier to grab.
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[n00b]Adereth
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Joined: 16 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

enVision wrote:
If anything, turning of OS movement should make it easier to grab.


No sir. The faster movement rate means a higher chance of the player's actor clipping through the pedestal and colliding with the weapon's actor. The slower, the worse.
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999cop
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Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be easier to grab if the pedestal was passable cuz' the weapon is placed behind the linedefs
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Alfred
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Joined: 25 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Addie, baby, you do realize that OS movement is how the character interacts with linedefs as its runs around, right? its not entirely a speed thing :s
As a matter of fact, os movement is often a lot faster than the ns movement...

And cop, yeah, making the linedefs passable would make it easier to get as the actor has to interact with the linedef's properties and unless there is a portion fairly close to the line, its hard to clip over into the collision feilds through the impassable lines.

yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

In any case, the more momentum you can get the more likely you are to clip into the other actor and grab the weapon.
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[n00b]Adereth
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Joined: 16 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that, laddie, is a speed thing interacting with a bug that stays put regardless of whether OS movement is enabled or not. Razz
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TimeOfDeath
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Joined: 03 Nov 2004

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm no expert, but here's what I tested with the map01 plasma grab:

Classic Movement and Classic Wallrunning ON = grab from north and east sides
Classic Movement ON and Classic Wallrunning OFF = grab from no sides
Classic Movement OFF with either wallrunning setting = grab from all sides

I got the same results with impassible lines.
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999cop
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Joined: 19 Apr 2002
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I've expereienced, sometimes these bumpy techniques are caused from bugs. Maybe the map01 pedestal is easier to break down, but it is harder or even impossible to re-create a similar situation as the BFG window grate on d5m1 unless you replicate another exact same copy. Regardless of its coordinate points or dimensions, that bumpy movement cannot be replicated as building it from scratch. This is from my past experience when I tried to create that for my maps.
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TimeOfDeath
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did some more testing to try to find some grabbing limits:

1) When a raised floor or single sided linedef is blocking you from picking up the item (example: map01 plasma grab):
Classic Movement On, Classic Wallrunning On = grab from north and east sides when the item thing is 40 units or less from the blocking line, grab from south and west sides when the item thing is 30 units or less from the blocking line.
Classic Movement On, Classic Wallrunning Off = grab from all sides when the item thing is 30 units or less from the blocking line.
Classic Movement Off, either Wallrunning setting = grab from all sides when the item thing is 40 units or less from the blocking line.

2) When the item is blocked by a double-sided impassible line with a nearby corner (example: bfg grab in dwango5 map01):
Either Classic Movement setting, either Classic Wallrunning setting = grab from all sides if the item thing is 42 units or less from the blocking line.

I also tried a square sector with impassible lines, without a raised floor, but was only able to grab 40 units or less from all sides. It seems to make grabbing easier if there is a wall near the impassible lines (like in d5m1) so that you can just sit in the corner while strafe running against the line.

I guess the test results with impassible lines in my previous post didn't differ from the passible lines test because the part of the line that was blocking you was the raised floor.

The tests in this post were done on a map made from scratch, so I don't see a problem replicating these bump tricks if you use the right dimensions and dmflags with square sectors.
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